Logging in to humans inside rk = p

[Elysia]

Elysia's example is a freak occurence where we also on narrates were talking about how many of us were there. We did kill things, but her wholist is odd, because it does not list Fermin who was on winding together with Isabell and also doesnt list the 2 lvl 35+ people that we fought in WB.

It's not as much a freak occurrence as you think. I've been on shittons the past two months. This happens regularly, minus the part of DS then being in WB.

This who-list is from when you were in WB killing mobs and Taedrial and Juanito had been killed, but before Fermin logged on. Isabel was somewhere up north, Ominas somewhere around EF a bit later. Someone on DS commented on 7 LS being on and then a whole lot of nothing because there were no pkers in the vicinity. It would've been a prime moment to hit TV general.

There not being full groups when I've been seeing DS who lists that are equal to the LS who list a whole bunch of times recently is part of the reason I mentioned DS lethargy. People might hit a few smobs up north and then sit around and wait for LS to magically get numbers up north.

The problem with numbers is all encompassing. Aussie time players will have a harder time getting a group to even smob (hence dynamic smobs, on which I've still not gotten feedback on bashing so that's kind of dead in the water). One solution would obviously be to have mobol take into account the time. There's always certain timeslots that are emptier than others. Mobol can't see that time, just the 24 tick clock. Mobol also can't operate off who, case in point, the imm character who relays things to the numbers website to begin with. And to illustrate how that this is really the case, I asked in April whether 'who' information could be relayed to Discord, which ultimately lead to the numbers thing on Stark's website. This is after a good long time of testing whether we can shift the game's toughness based on timeslot, on who's on and whatnot, primarily for the Aussie vs peak times problem, but it's obviously also can be applied elsewhere. It just can't be done with mobol. Pretty much, with these things, assume that imms thought of it years ago and tried, and failed.

Tar Valon is arguably one of the weakest cities on LS. Players can make it harder, but there have been considerably less LS players on since July or so. Either way, wrt the war system, several imms talked about it and we concluded that unless through multiple hits and a considerable amount of time to account for player highs and lows it's proven to be too hard or impossible, nothing will change. Do nothing, and nothing will change. And that's where we've been at for a good long time.

And I'll hit up Gira about those alt qps, see what happened with that. I can't take over for him in the near future because of the huge Tower zone smallifying project and one after that's been planned and I feel is more important (you will see why when that rolls out), but after that I also have to look at swapping out the Ruined Keep mobs for special RK/ or DS city only mobs, so they can be buffed without buffing every DS patty elsewhere on the game. That would also prep those zones for if we ever get coding to apply some call mob.

[Rig]

I think the real problem is that a lot of you players and immortals speaking on this lack insight and actual experience. I'm not saying all of you, players like Iria, Razhak, Jaster, Jecks, etc all are very knowledgeable players. However, I see a lot of these comments and it's glaringly obvious that you do not play both sides. There's a difference in having actual perspective and just one-sided listening to hearsay/firetrucking with gate defenses and going 'oh, it took forever to work.'

I very much hope that you do not take this as an attack or insult. Rather as a way of realizing the importance of building perspective and then realizing why all of these 'high profile' players say what they do.

[Rodger]

ah, another point - I think being killed haggard is the worst. That said I think a lot of people who are playing both sides are going to want to see LS win these climate wars (DS winning means pk up north takes more moves).

What malus does DS have for LS winning? Fireballs doing more damage? Humans not dieing haggard?

This might be more of why LS seems to be hitting general more often, when gap was blighted it was terrible and people were motivated to change it.

DS would need either a malus or a bonus (I think the altqps could really help) to make them(me?) want to kill general...

[iria]

Temperate weather making spikes viable in Blight etc. seems to be the biggest malus.

[Rodger]

unable to run down gap without losing ~30 moves riding vs having to move to stedding if too many channelers...doesn't seem too close honestly

[Elysia]

Convince the collective immortals that you're not just throwing a tantrum over 'having to smob', because that's how it all started: comments from those 'players with perspective and experience' about how it was stupid that DS had to smob to win. Not comments on how hard TV was, not comments about numbers, not comments about gatedefenses. It was all about smobbing being stupid. Ever since, it has been looking like DS has been trying to find new arguments to have it changed.

If we ever have the ability, pk will become a factor. In fact, when TG points run out, you will need to gain those TG points in order to pay for changes.

Things I can do, assuming there's valid arguments provided:
-Change the cost of changes so TG points run out sooner.
-Do a TG point wipe, but be warned, I cannot ADD TG points, so this would be permanent. Meaning it would have to be backed by a huge majority across the board, as well as Imms.
-Change the 200 requirement so it's easier to gain 2 changes.

In general, immortals value different things, hence why I said I don't believe in 'smobbers'. To some people, even those with 'insight and experience' it seems that there are only two flavors: smobbers and pkers. Even if that were the case, immortals value both types. However, there are so many more flavors, like rpers, explorers, jack-of-all-trades, the people who test things until they've ferreted out everything, documenter types who want to know every herb load in every shop (for example) and so on. To say the game is about smobbers vs pkers is doing the game and many players an injustice.

As immortals, we try to get people out of their comfort zone. Wisdoms and Gleemen getting a quest up in Blight, for example. DS raiding south. LS/DS/SS hitting cities. *oL hitting TKD. Aside from the obvious 'getting people in eachother's way so something can happen', there are hardcore people of any preferred activity and for the longevity of their stay and thus the game it is better if people branch out and do other things. Some Lancers dislike having to go south to make money/ use Market Hall/ get some types of items, but anything that gets people out and about and doing something other than their core activity is good in our book.

[Razhak]

Convince the collective immortals that you're not just throwing a tantrum over 'having to smob', because that's how it all started: comments from those 'players with perspective and experience' about how it was stupid that DS had to smob to win. Not comments on how hard TV was, not comments about numbers, not comments about gatedefenses. It was all about smobbing being stupid. Ever since, it has been looking like DS has been trying to find new arguments to have it changed.

This is just silly.. I posted my long ass post in our Chosen-immortal private discord back in november 2019, and its only been redacted for readability and some new additions when I posted it yesterday here. On that channel, and i checked it: not a single comment from any immortal on our discussion amongst the Chosen about this matter.

From the start there have been doubts on the feasibility of DS being able to compete under the currect set of rules, this being voiced by me and others. The arguments that we have to compete in this smobwar to be allowed to comment on it/get it changed, is like telling american football players to go compete in an ice skating contest to be able to get a new football pitch.. And then calling them out that they complain about it and that its unfair towards them..

I understand that this is something that took time, effort and dedication to create. I know how frustrating mobol and creating mobs/zones can be and I fully understand that once you created this stuff, that you feel it is your "baby"

But what works for one side, especially what works same-side, cant always just be transplanted into a cross-race setting. At the moment it feels like no matter how much people complain (with good reasons and good arguments), that this thing has to succeed and has to stay, no matter what. Why not go back to the drawing table, ask for input and come up with something better? You can keep the generals for same side pk, but lets come up with something better for cross race?

[Derick]

DS is easymode….it literally takes 1 tic for a trolloc (without compel or vials) to get from rk to tv. Tons of ways for it to happen, between flames, ways etc. takes at least 5 tics for humans to get from fd to rk via horses. Hitting rk is a larger risk than tv in that aspect alone. I play both sides, and for sure there are pros and cons to both, and I prefer pking on my trolls any day of the week, because its simply easier. sure lightside can get massive numbers, but ds honestly has no excuse for not even attempting tv general except laziness and fear. They are afraid to lose pretties. Both times I hit rk general I was using tmaul, ominas lost heron, kendall hit with perfect kit with heron, scabbards silver meds and who knows what else. A few trolls are afraid to lose abs axes? Or is it the fades that are afraid?

[Ominas]

I wouldn't say that not being a "high profile" player means very much honestly. The most knowledgeable players of the game itself that I know can't pk their way out of a wet paper bag and have made no footprint on the game. I constantly find myself going to them asking about this or that. Figured I'd throw it out there.

I also don't think that most of you who have posted on this thread that are known are stupid or anything like that. I just think you're delusional, biased, and jaded. I commented last night on ls globals when this came up that once bias enters an argument it's not an argument. It's an opinion. Which is worthless. Regardless of what you -think- you know. Which is where the delusion comes in.

Tar Valon is arguably the weakest city in the game. Wasn't always. But it is now. It has a standard mob rate within an area that's incredibly large. You have four minor loops, and four more larger loops. Not counting the actual tower. If you die there, you seriously fucked up somehow. I would bet I've killed more players in Tar Valon than probably any that's posted. I'd also argue I've probably at least matched if not surpassed all of your kills in every city on the map. Throwing credentials out there so it's clear I'm not just throwing out bullshit. That being said, if you guys had raided Tar Valon and it was just me on, or you on Raz, there's not a thing that could be done to stop you or stem it. I doubt anyone would even die unless they fucked up like I said. Maybe a channeler could get lucky but that's about it.

The writtenrealms checking numbers thing keeps being brought up. It goes both ways.

Iria pretty much summed it up perfectly. Jecks too.

To answer you directly Raz, I don't think you're up on the times at this point. Based on some of the stuff you've said. So most of it is false. I'd argue Gief and Iria are probably the only ones who truly are, of those you named. Rigs fun to fight against and has become a solid leader. But he still knows dung about this game. Jaster is clued in, he's just an angry and jaded guy lately. Remember bias.

I knew you were whitebridge, I was helping a new player level at the time. So my options were go have some awful and boring pk, or continue to get xp that I didn't need. Pretty clear choice to me. The world was yours to do with as you wanted. You didn't do anything with it. According to your perception you're a standard bearer and one of the leaders right? What happened? That's the lethargy that Elysia said your side is dealing with. I'm not saying it's your fault honestly, I'm mostly kidding around. At least you were doing something. But It is what it is.

The system isn't perfect. But it's damn good. And it's something. It's an option. And all of you are sitting back bitching. Haha I mean really that's all you're doing. You're whining and saying it's unfair and not ok. Most days I log, just like Iria, for a long while I'm the only person on that can pk. And the numbers are no where near as lopsided as some of you keep claiming. They're pretty even in fact. Like someone said, maybe Jaster, DS is -the- pk side. So if you have numbers, generally you're all pkers. You all sit tight and afk or idle and do nothing. You don't try to do anything.

At least ls has. And honestly it's gone HORRIBLY for us for the most part. Know what though? It was good times. I've been raiding inside RK every day the last few days. Killed a few of you. Almost died every time. Don't even try to say rk is dung for defense. It's fantastically built and has many options in that regard.

What about you? Do something. Anything. It's better than stagnation. Like I said, at least the war system is something. This is what Derick meant with his grow some balls comment. It wasn't personal. Don't take it that way. But facts are facts...

Kryyg, Mikhan, Zeeb, Myrdan, Rig, Byrg (begrudgingly but you gave me a fun ass fight last night props), Crackity, Zeeb, Gief, Jestin, Kultunk. All have raided and created some damn good pk, in recent memory. I'll begrudgingly say Raz has as well, although it's predictable and he's the kind of guy that runs to op mobs instantly. Nog as well. But I have zero fun fighting rogues. There's others but I can't recall their names

Also this little demon called Dragonhunter the last few days. Little dung is a dangerous beast. He's less than the named level. Props to him. Throwing it out there. At least he's out having fun and trying to do something eh?

You guys should to.

I wanted to throw this last bit in because I'm not saying you're all boring and do nothing at all times. Some of you are go getters and go hard.

I'm rambling I think, but I'm tired. Just enjoy the chortlesnorfling game and stop acting like sissies.

It's hittable. It's fair for all sides. We all die. Just please for the love of whatever god you're into, stop complaining. Go do something or shut up.

Ps. Rodger's post is also good and highlights stuff.

*Edited to add Mikhan. Sorry sir. You're a god damned saint. I can't believe I left you out.*

[Adael]

-Change the 200 requirement so it's easier to gain 2 changes.

Regardless of other things said here, just wanted to point out that a difference of 200 turn ins averages out to the general getting hit more than twice a day, every day, for the 3 month period. Rather unrealistic imo :P