Logging in to humans inside rk = p

[Jaster]

I agree with Iria's post above and in short, I feel the defeatist attitude presented by DS Leadership and the lack of will to learn, try and improve is the larger problem. Get those positive aggressive Fade leading powers back up and watch the trolloc fists rise to the occasion! System revolves around a Smobesque activity, it is still PK scentric and people who participate in it are more often than not Pkers themselves.

I fail to see the defeatist attitude you speak of. Players are offering constructive criticism to a war system that encompasses a part of the game that really isn’t the war they seek (Killing a mob). Reasons are being given to why it favors one side vs. the other and are being dismissed because imms can’t control the playerbase numbers. Well the numbers were never equal, however, the thing called balance would be introduced to the equation to take that into account. You say that these war hits are to make more war and chaos but you use means to see the path of least resistance and choose to conduct these “chaos” hits during the lowest possible playerbase times. This is factual and evident by the timestamps on your turn ins. Razhak has a valid point that a smob system that is not currently balanced is going to have huge ramifications on the PK landscape of the mud via climate change. Wilders will be able to flourish without downside if the smob war stays the course. Darkside has always primarily been a PK race. You are asking them to become a smob Force with lower numbers to counter the war. The times when darkside has the numbers to do the general are when Lside averages double/triple their numbers increasing the defense of the lside general. When Lside is hitting the general they are hitting when their wholist is 10x darkside. Seems balanced to me. At the end of the day the war system should involve both smobbing(killing Kings/generals) and actual player killing. It currently does not. It is not much of a war system. It is primarily just a hit and run smob system designed for the side that has more players than the other. It is exactly what happened on Lside. The clans would wait until the other was sleeping or not playing and hit their general. Wow. Proved a lot.

You say lack the wil to learn. That’s a laughable statement. There is not much to learn about the “war system”

[iria]

lets be honest, these hits happen when there is no PK. "Asking them to become a smob force" is just asking them to do the same thing they do when there is no PK on and they don't want to rent/afk. Smob. Worst case scenario, you kill a smob that can benefit your side and don't find any humans to PK. Best case you kill the general and get some PK as well.

I mean you can just take Elysia's example and you'll see 6-7 on DS and 2 clanneds on LS with 5 statters or whatever it was, so the "whenever ds hits it is during peak LS times and they have to fight 3x their numbers" just doesn't seem accurate. Does it happen? Sure, not saying that, but that is just the risk you run as always. Same when trollocs are hitting cityheads. They can hit and get jumped by that Tower smob group, or they kill the King and might have to deal with a 1-2 high level characters since the rest are statters/afk.

But yes I agree it would be nice if actual PKing would factor in to the tally as well, same as it does for sameside wars. Again your point about wilders being able to flourish. Sure. But not too long ago it was the other way around, where anything north of DF/Winding was just 80 degs.

[Razhak]

I have personally as a solo player and as a leader won more global quests then most others. You can reread the past announcements of the past 2 decades. The only big global quest I didnt participate in lately was the Torres thing, and only because it was consistently planned at 2-3 am in the mornings for me as an european player..

Calling me defeatist is a bit strong. Saying I am unwilling to learn new things is also laughable, I am almost Always at the forefront of learning new things on this mud. If you hit DS cities and I am online, I will defend to my utmost abilities, alot of people will be able to attest that.

This is not about DS being defeatist, it is about DS getting defeated by the specific way this socalled war is organised.

Elysia's example is a freak occurence where we also on narrates were talking about how many of us were there. We did kill things, but her wholist is odd, because it does not list Fermin who was on winding together with Isabell and also doesnt list the 2 lvl 35+ people that we fought in WB. So basically we had 4-5 people who were in WB, and we were expected to hit inside TV against a LS wholist that afaik included Fermin, Isabell and 2-3 other high level humans?

Reread my long post for my exact thoughts and proposed solutions for it. If I were defeatist I would only complain, and not bother to write 2 pages in word about how to fix something I think was and is consistently a broken system.

[iria]

Elysia's example is a freak occurence where ....

I think this line right here could be at the heart of the problem. Again all depends on different playtimes, weekends, holidays and what not. But, at least during my playtimes, I'll often check how many are on Stark's website. Might say something like 9 on ls and 5 on DS or 4 on DS, whatever. When I log on LS I'll be the only clanned or the only "known" pker. Could be this is vastly different during 'merican playtimes and it isn't feasible for DS to do stuff, can't comment on that.

So I think it is more often than you think, but could be because Stark's site says 10 on LS that DS can get disheartened from hitting anything.

[Razhak]

Sorry, but I seriously cannot remember the last time I lead a full group on DS

Or even a near full group.

And I run into full LS groups all the time.

That is the essence. Without a good group (4-7 players) you cannot even consider hitting a city or a general inside a city, because you are basically setting yourself up for annihilation even vs a smaller opposing force inside TV. Like people said: block the novice zone gate with 1-2 people, another person sicks callmobs on the group, and you can basically kill a group inside TV easy as dung.

That is not defeatist, that is reality. Making constant snide remarks about "upping DS activity" is just assinine.

We as Chosen have consistently tried to do that by organising events (the Culling, anyone?) where we invested our own time, gold coins, items as rewards), we have conducted quests, PK classes, etc, etc.

I consistently fill up the TKD barrel for anyone who wants to re-eq or stat on DS, so no one needs to go wanting for equipment.

There is not much more we as players can do there. A broken warsystem, however: that is something that can be fixed, because as me and others said before: before long it will become a slippery slope which will start favoring one side more and more because of the stacked rewards..

[Jecks]

Defeatist : Having a defeatist attitude means that you give up before you've even started, like the runner who is so convinced he's going to lose the race that he doesn't even bother to go to the starting line. A defeatist is the opposite of an optimist.

I apologize, the word Defeatist is too strong. I should have used one of the following:

- Grudging : done in an unwilling way
- Chary : unwilling to do something because you are afraid that something bad will happen
- Reluctant : not willing to do something
- Unwilling : if you are unwilling to do something, you do not want to do it or you refuse to do it

Players are offering constructive criticism to a war system that encompasses a part of the game that really isn’t the war they seek (Killing a mob).

The System has been in place for long enough now that I think we're past the "brainstorming / idea sharing" period and in the "application" period (like it or not). Imms (Elysia) has been very generous in her replies to this thread and my take on the responces is that the War System is how it is and we should be using it as it is rather than dream of what it should be.

With that said, ideas and suggestions moving forward should reflect how the system is and not how we feel it should be (my dream of a high activity back and forth Basketball type War System is dead!). And I'm sure the creative ideas and opinions of the players can think of ways to tweak the current system as fair as reasonably possible. Which, I might add, the imms have likely put lots of time into considering in the first place.

Therefore, in essence it comes down to accepting what the War System is and working around it rather than against it. Then going for it! Smash, howl, destroy! Play the game.

You say lack the wil to learn. That’s a laughable statement. There is not much to learn about the “war system”

How to get people together, how to get to TV, in TV, out of TV in the best way to ensure least amount of casualties, how to resist and fight inside TV, outside TV, where are the no mobs, where are good regroup points, how much pick is required for each gate, does walking past all the mobs and going straight for the general set off the TV alarm or not (likely doesn't), should the entire group have no locs, zerk or no zerk, ect. I can think of plenty of other things to learn about if someone wanted to lead and participate in the "war system". (If Jaster already knows this, then good on him. Share it with other aspiring DS leaders and help the side A) Participate, B) Win! and C) Have a good time.)


Addendum :

To Razhak's reply about not having a full group on DS in a while.
- I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure the TV General doesn't require a full group to kill it. Grab the eq from the TKD barrel, eq your R8 mob, take the 4 trollocs (and mobs if any are masters themselves) and go for it. The result might be a lot funner and surprisingly better than you begrudgingly anticipate. (And what self respecting trollocs wouldn't gladly sacrifice their lives to ensure that the Blight stay Blighted?!)

This war system is challenging for both sides but it's how you look at it, accept it and make it enjoyable as a group activity that matters the most.

[Derick]

I've been part of 3 rk general hits in the past week. 2 failed with 2-3 defenders. Only one succeeded. Both hits that failed the majority of the groups died, losing rares and herons etc to ds. I have never seen an attempt on TV's general. Grow some balls and try. To beat ds general, we had to come with 10, over half masters with mobs, and clear most of keep before even hitting the general. Also, everyone that hit was a pker not just a smobber, it took about 30 minutes or so asking on globals and asking friends to log on for an adventure. Just saying it is possible and tv is probably the easiest city in game to hit. Just stay out of the tower. I've warred against tear....and I promise you, tv is nothing compared. Practice a little pick, get some friends to log on, grow some balls, and have fun.

[Razhak]

God.. Derick and Jecks must be thinking that Jaster, Rig, me and Zangief who all share this opinion I wrote down in such length and detail, are newbies who never raided or hit a city.

Ok.. I will go out and learn all those things you advise (like we havent paid attention for the past 20 years here) and next time I kill Derick I will chop off some balls to make sure I dont sink into a deep, quivering depressive anxiety attack for having to hit a cityhead/general...

Please be constructive here instead of accusing us over and over again for being either to newbie to know how to actually hit a city, or to afraid to do so.

We have all done these things over and over again in the past. We know how it works. And because we actually know how these things work, we are voicing our concerns here.

[Quintilius]

The System has been in place for long enough now that I think we're past the "brainstorming / idea sharing" period and in the "application" period (like it or not) ... the War System is how it is and we should be using it as it is rather than dream of what it should be.

Anything should be open to changes. Some things can't be seen without a run of several months.

Factoring in PK to the tally somehow seems interesting?

[Razhak]

The System has been in place for long enough now that I think we're past the "brainstorming / idea sharing" period and in the "application" period (like it or not). Imms (Elysia) has been very generous in her replies to this thread and my take on the responces is that the War System is how it is and we should be using it as it is rather than dream of what it should be.

With that said, ideas and suggestions moving forward should reflect how the system is and not how we feel it should be (my dream of a high activity back and forth Basketball type War System is dead!). And I'm sure the creative ideas and opinions of the players can think of ways to tweak the current system as fair as reasonably possible. Which, I might add, the imms have likely put lots of time into considering in the first place.

I thought Always that there was a 30 day period before we could talk about features after they were implemented.

The way you twist this, then we could never talk about any feature no more: its implemented! Take it or leave it!

Some things need some cycles or some times to become Obvious.

For some reason if I look at our numbers, alot of people already left.. aka voted with their feet.

Perhaps its time to change some things up then?