Can we as players generally make clanning easier?
Re: Can we as players generally make clanning easier?
Right, but if that was the case then Pial would be declanned because of in character actions... which is fine! Instead of out of character bias.
Re: Can we as players generally make clanning easier?
I mentioned I keep it purely in character! Although I do see what you're saying. I don't think that's the definition of old boys club though. I have no problems accepting the same person into a clan on a different character that they aren't causing problems on.
Re: Can we as players generally make clanning easier?
Old boys networks yes or no, thats another discussion imo. There are clans which are controlled by certain people in it. I dont think that needs be a bad thing perse (I am part of one, the Chosen, myself), and sometimes it is more based on safeguarding a measure of commitment to a clan or side. There is a big difference between clans like Gaidin/wolfbrothers/Chosen etc, vs justice clans.
However, basic clans, and I consider justice clans that, should be open to the rank and file, just like national armies should be comprised mainly of rank and file soldiers rather then only generals.. (to many chiefs, not enough indians!)
Make clanning into justice clans automated, you are inducted at rank 1, but cannot progress in qps amount past the rank 2 threshhold untill you are voted on by the rest of the clan. Make them only be able to earn qps through either mobquests/automated clanspecific quests, or through qps awards from their clanmasters (up to a certain amount)
Make rank 1s literally the grunts of the army: they will get assisted by mobs (so if someone attacks them, it will give a measure of protection), but will not have warranting or pardoning powers.
Once they are voted on, they can start acquiring qps from PK and progress further.
However, basic clans, and I consider justice clans that, should be open to the rank and file, just like national armies should be comprised mainly of rank and file soldiers rather then only generals.. (to many chiefs, not enough indians!)
Make clanning into justice clans automated, you are inducted at rank 1, but cannot progress in qps amount past the rank 2 threshhold untill you are voted on by the rest of the clan. Make them only be able to earn qps through either mobquests/automated clanspecific quests, or through qps awards from their clanmasters (up to a certain amount)
Make rank 1s literally the grunts of the army: they will get assisted by mobs (so if someone attacks them, it will give a measure of protection), but will not have warranting or pardoning powers.
Once they are voted on, they can start acquiring qps from PK and progress further.
Re: Can we as players generally make clanning easier?
Auto clanning would probably work for Defenders. Think we take just about anyone and use the first two ranks as the application stage.
Re: Can we as players generally make clanning easier?
Out of curiosity, why are you trying to clan in an inactive clan? Especially if you're newer, would it not make sense to join an active clan where you can learn/interact/play with others?
Re: Can we as players generally make clanning easier?
If clans want to change their clanning procedures, they can. As it is, there are many varities in place in the game:
It's easy to clan into, for example, Defenders and Saldaean Cavalry, because the first (few) ranks are for evaluation.
It's also rather easy to clan into CoL, since all you need is an RP log.
A bunch of other clans, such as Lion Warden, Rising Sun just require a few quests.
There's a few other clans, like Red Eagles, that require a bit more, such as pk scalps and clanning quests.
There's a clan like Wisdoms, Gleeman and Illuminators where you will be expected to do some roleplay with others and if possible, with clan members themselves.
And then there's Tower and shawling.
I do think it's the players' right to keep out people whom they feel are either inadequate skill wise, be it rp, pk, zone knowledge, or who are just bad apples. Let's not kid anyone, there are bad apples in this game and some of them are not at all obvious. I can't fault clans for wanting to keep bad apples out of their hair, as dealing with them usually takes a lot of frustration, usually leads to some form of personal attacks and often kills off activity in a standard justice clan for a period afterwards because people move to stress-free alts.
If anything, if you want open clanning, a procedure in place to deal with repeat offenders will come in handy. At least one clan employs a three-strikes-you're-out system. At the very least, you will need a way to boot people who are real trouble, e.g. a declanning procedure that will also work during low activity. As someone who's run their fair share of declan votes, people usually don't care if they don't get along, so "I don't like Bobby" is rarely an issue. The people who don't connect to a clan and who feel out of place tend to either not play, or simply declan. Even players not following clan rp is rarely the issue, as that is usually dealt with through qps dockings by Council. In a majority of other cases, it's usually because someone is a bad apple.
It's easy to clan into, for example, Defenders and Saldaean Cavalry, because the first (few) ranks are for evaluation.
It's also rather easy to clan into CoL, since all you need is an RP log.
A bunch of other clans, such as Lion Warden, Rising Sun just require a few quests.
There's a few other clans, like Red Eagles, that require a bit more, such as pk scalps and clanning quests.
There's a clan like Wisdoms, Gleeman and Illuminators where you will be expected to do some roleplay with others and if possible, with clan members themselves.
And then there's Tower and shawling.
I do think it's the players' right to keep out people whom they feel are either inadequate skill wise, be it rp, pk, zone knowledge, or who are just bad apples. Let's not kid anyone, there are bad apples in this game and some of them are not at all obvious. I can't fault clans for wanting to keep bad apples out of their hair, as dealing with them usually takes a lot of frustration, usually leads to some form of personal attacks and often kills off activity in a standard justice clan for a period afterwards because people move to stress-free alts.
If anything, if you want open clanning, a procedure in place to deal with repeat offenders will come in handy. At least one clan employs a three-strikes-you're-out system. At the very least, you will need a way to boot people who are real trouble, e.g. a declanning procedure that will also work during low activity. As someone who's run their fair share of declan votes, people usually don't care if they don't get along, so "I don't like Bobby" is rarely an issue. The people who don't connect to a clan and who feel out of place tend to either not play, or simply declan. Even players not following clan rp is rarely the issue, as that is usually dealt with through qps dockings by Council. In a majority of other cases, it's usually because someone is a bad apple.
Re: Can we as players generally make clanning easier?
This exactly.Elysia wrote:
I do think it's the players' right to keep out people whom they feel are either inadequate skill wise, be it rp, pk, zone knowledge, or who are just bad apples. Let's not kid anyone, there are bad apples in this game and some of them are not at all obvious. I can't fault clans for wanting to keep bad apples out of their hair, as dealing with them usually takes a lot of frustration, usually leads to some form of personal attacks and often kills off activity in a standard justice clan for a period afterwards because people move to stress-free alts.
Fat lot of good it did though. It is exactly why I don't play anymore and do no more than poke my nose in these days.
Re: Can we as players generally make clanning easier?
Just from my experience on the mud I've always found "regular" clans fairly easy to clan into as long as they aren't completely inactive, but that is the sacrifice you'd have to make if you really want to get into an inactive clan I think. From my experience most clans function on a 2 weeks time as an applicant/apprentice and then usually a week's time for people to vote on you, so maybe a total of a 3-4 weeks usually. Inactive clans are tougher of course, since no one is around to actually initiate the vote/give you stuff to do. So I think it is mainly up to you if you have your heart set on an inactive clan that you might have to spend some extra time, unless you have a friend in there or a friend's friend, to help you out with initiating voting time.
Re: Can we as players generally make clanning easier?
Other than stockpiling qps, how is this any different from getting voted into the clan? You're just moving the barrier for entry. Otherwise, seems like all of the other issues have been covered by Elysia and others.Kerryk wrote: If someone is auto clanned, then their actions as a clanmate determine if they can progress past rank 1-2. This changes the process from being exclusive to inclusive.
Re: Can we as players generally make clanning easier?
Well I mean stockpiling qp's at rank isn't a bad thing though is it? Im not experienced but to me it seems at least they can start working towards the grind they'll have later while they wait for the less active players to get to know them rather than just kinda waiting