splitting in pk

[jasmin]

and yet the absers take the trinkets all the time, so until that changes (which it won't for everyone) I'm pretty firm on where I stand that splits (at least of rares) should be equal splits for everyone, unless its decided that someone can specifically use the eq.

Doesnt' matter if 5 of the absers who died today are only gonna take abs, if 3 of the absers who are on the kill of a dodger decide they want to be included in the eq split - for the dodger they're still not gonna take abs, and still gonna be left splitting trinkets.

[Enok]

Well, I guess that depends on who you're playing with.

[granit]

well, you know it's funny because people forget that you can actually pk solo, and take everything. I know pk is more fun in groups and more reasonable as far as surviving/getting kills goes but - I think if it's a group - give players in that group what they need to be successful vs raffling off lotto items for people's alts. that's literally why we have remorts and people sitting with multiple uniques and other issues. Sure, that person that needs the gear and is practiced/can use that gear might die within an hour and you might say "oh no, what a waste" but, at least it's circulating and people are playing their alts vs storing stuff on their alts/for their alts.

think about it.

[Skadi]

There seems to be an assumption being made by almost everyone here that gear that is not immediately and obviously put on a character is not used. Gear that is not given to chars pracced for it is considered stored or traded and not in play anymore. I disagree with this (and the idea that we should only split eq to people that will use it this instant) for a bunch of reasons:

- on LS in particular there are more uses than on DS. There's a trading culture. Are you happy with a FC getting a rare staff, but not a maul? What if she trades the maul she got in a split for the staff?
- crafting and brokers exist. If we kill a dodger, everyone has a use for the sids/grings at a minimum (vials and fireworks). More uses exist than you might think of at first glance.
- splitting regardless of setup encourages players to play on whatever char they want and with whatever setup they want. FCs tend to be involved in takedowns of the players with very good eq (who tend not to die much otherwise). I don't think it's fair to deny them the eq when they put in work, especially when almost all players nowadays have alts that can use the weapons. My assumption is that even if I give a maul to a FC, it will be used on their basher.

Same principle means that absers don't get locked out of the more valuable combo drops - I'm a fan of anything that encourages more abs.

I agree with some of what others have said - eq the dead first, upgrade living pkers and give what they had to the dead, etc.

[Skadi]

Well... not really if the channie weaved the guy for 420 of the 420 hps it took him to die
or even 50....

By the exact same token as the absers can get a chance at the silver meds, egowns and shocklances (which are an amazing channie weapon) when those get rolled for.

Most of the pk I see has... what.. daily 5, 10, 20 absers die? and 2-3 dodgers if that. So are you saying absers shouldn't be included on the dodger splits? what about the combo users?

Almost everyone who still plays this game has multiple alts.

See this is the problem with lack of char separation. If you need 2 silver meds that we got from a kill to finish your full kit, and I'm in abs, I'm not going to challenge that. If there's an abs weapon that drops I would assume to get it. This is how DS usually splits. I don't care if you weaved 420 hps off of a fade. Did you fight him solo? Fine, take it. Was someone buffing for you and/or chasing/keeping others off your back? Please, share the wealth. Present characters always have first pick.

Gear should never be alted. Complete violation of character separation. Gear should go to people who can use, like scalps should go to non-masters first. There is absolutely something wrong with a fc walking away with a heron greatword or maul, and an abser taking an egown or cuffs.

I mean - alting gear has been going on for way longer than either you or I have been playing. It's not going away anytime soon. Also, in terms of char separation, you hide gear somewhere, and 5 minutes later, someone else miraculously finds it. It's a bit of a loophole but it's been explicitly allowed since the gear is available to anyone that can find it.

[hasp]

I am assuming he meant winning a roll for something you do not need, just to alt it?

[Reyne]

Seems like since opinions vary widely all we can really do is try to openly communicate in a friendly way when the gear split time comes. People can definitely get prickly though - I remember someone angry with an Accepted for suggesting that they just roll once and have it be evens vs odds instead of highest number (it was just the two of them rolling on one item). Makes no difference in the end other than to save some time and the Accepted did have a point that it means there's no potential for a reroll if they both get the same number. The whole situation was a lot more drama than it really needed to be.

There is absolutely something wrong with a fc walking away with a heron greatword or maul, and an abser taking an egown or cuffs.

Out of curiosity - is it a big deal if I take abs for a gaidin or if he grabs dodge for me? Say Draz and I fought for a while in the blight, then I die, then I have to log, then he gets a kill later in a separate PK (so he can't 'roll for me' really). Is it frowned upon if he rolls on trinkets to give me later assuming there's no one in need of a re-gear at that moment?

[Pounds]

Seems like since opinions vary widely all we can really do is try to openly communicate in a friendly way when the gear split time comes. People can definitely get prickly though - I remember someone angry with an Accepted for suggesting that they just roll once and have it be evens vs odds instead of highest number (it was just the two of them rolling on one item). Makes no difference in the end other than to save some time and the Accepted did have a point that it means there's no potential for a reroll if they both get the same number. The whole situation was a lot more drama than it really needed to be.

There is absolutely something wrong with a fc walking away with a heron greatword or maul, and an abser taking an egown or cuffs.

Out of curiosity - is it a big deal if I take abs for a gaidin or if he grabs dodge for me? Say Draz and I fought for a while in the blight, then I die, then I have to log, then he gets a kill later in a separate PK (so he can't 'roll for me' really). Is it frowned upon if he rolls on trinkets to give me later assuming there's no one in need of a re-gear at that moment?

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with it, so long as no one in the PK needed to use it right then and there. I think the distinction that people are failing to draw is when it is appropriate to shoot dice or for people to take stuff. The order I subscribe to is as follows:

1. Anyone who can use it immediately and was involved in the kill.
2. Anyone who is willing to reset immediately and as a result would be someone from #1.
3. If #1 and #2 are passed over, then whoever wants it can have it.
4. If the number of people from #3 is greater than one, you can shoot dice.

That's how I think it should be done and is how I do splits these days. Doesn't mean you have to do it that way. I think a lot of people share the same thoughts as I do.

Another thought on shooting dice: Sometimes I think it is best for some players to excuse themselves from participating. People who play rares and uniques all the time are obviously able to get them. By excusing themselves, they give newer players a chance at getting the lucky dice roll. I am not sure if this already happens. I am not saying those players don't deserve a shot. I just think the point of lotto is for some of the people lower on the totem pole to get a shot at getting something they otherwise would not have gotten. If I'm using a heron long, and I just died using another heron long, I would probably sit out on the heron long split we were just about to do. Or if I just had Daes for two weeks and died, I'm not going to shoot for the wicked axe even if I am going to reset to it. I'll give someone else a shot. Now if I haven't played any rares or uniques for some time, maybe a couple weeks, I would probably throw my hat in the ring and shoot dice for it. I wouldn't see any problem with that.

I think it would be fine if you died and quit out, and Draz took a set for you from the PK you died in. If it was a later PK, it is trickier, like he was saying earlier. I would make sure no one can use it immediately. Maybe mention the intention of giving it to someone who died in an earlier PK. If someone wants it as a backup, they may be more understanding and receptive to passing on shooting dice because it is going to go to someone who recently died. Then again, they may still want to shoot dice, and it would be absolutely acceptable.

I think people who die and then alt are trickier to deal with. If you have multiple fully geared characters, you are typically a good enough player to be able to re equip easily after dying, and probably have backup sets. If not, I still think by alting you are giving up on that guy. If you get a set from the pk and no one needs it right away, I wouldn't be against giving it to the guy who died on alt. After all, he did come back and help continue the PK and contributed. But if someone else needs that eq immediately, they should get a fair shot at it. You shouldn't get it immediately just because you died. It sucks that you died. I've died plenty and no one ever gave me anything. No special treatment.

Of course if we recover someone's set and we know it is their set, they are going to get it back one way or another.

Disclaimer: All of this is of course just my opinion.

[granit]

Seems like since opinions vary widely all we can really do is try to openly communicate in a friendly way when the gear split time comes. People can definitely get prickly though - I remember someone angry with an Accepted for suggesting that they just roll once and have it be evens vs odds instead of highest number (it was just the two of them rolling on one item). Makes no difference in the end other than to save some time and the Accepted did have a point that it means there's no potential for a reroll if they both get the same number. The whole situation was a lot more drama than it really needed to be.

There is absolutely something wrong with a fc walking away with a heron greatword or maul, and an abser taking an egown or cuffs.

Out of curiosity - is it a big deal if I take abs for a gaidin or if he grabs dodge for me? Say Draz and I fought for a while in the blight, then I die, then I have to log, then he gets a kill later in a separate PK (so he can't 'roll for me' really). Is it frowned upon if he rolls on trinkets to give me later assuming there's no one in need of a re-gear at that moment?

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with it, so long as no one in the PK needed to use it right then and there. I think the distinction that people are failing to draw is when it is appropriate to shoot dice or for people to take stuff. The order I subscribe to is as follows:

1. Anyone who can use it immediately and was involved in the kill.
2. Anyone who is willing to reset immediately and as a result would be someone from #1.
3. If #1 and #2 are passed over, then whoever wants it can have it.
4. If the number of people from #3 is greater than one, you can shoot dice.

That's how I think it should be done and is how I do splits these days. Doesn't mean you have to do it that way. I think a lot of people share the same thoughts as I do.

Another thought on shooting dice: Sometimes I think it is best for some players to excuse themselves from participating. People who play rares and uniques all the time are obviously able to get them. By excusing themselves, they give newer players a chance at getting the lucky dice roll. I am not sure if this already happens. I am not saying those players don't deserve a shot. I just think the point of lotto is for some of the people lower on the totem pole to get a shot at getting something they otherwise would not have gotten. If I'm using a heron long, and I just died using another heron long, I would probably sit out on the heron long split we were just about to do. Or if I just had Daes for two weeks and died, I'm not going to shoot for the wicked axe even if I am going to reset to it. I'll give someone else a shot. Now if I haven't played any rares or uniques for some time, maybe a couple weeks, I would probably throw my hat in the ring and shoot dice for it. I wouldn't see any problem with that.

I think it would be fine if you died and quit out, and Draz took a set for you from the PK you died in. If it was a later PK, it is trickier, like he was saying earlier. I would make sure no one can use it immediately. Maybe mention the intention of giving it to someone who died in an earlier PK. If someone wants it as a backup, they may be more understanding and receptive to passing on shooting dice because it is going to go to someone who recently died. Then again, they may still want to shoot dice, and it would be absolutely acceptable.

I think people who die and then alt are trickier to deal with. If you have multiple fully geared characters, you are typically a good enough player to be able to re equip easily after dying, and probably have backup sets. If not, I still think by alting you are giving up on that guy. If you get a set from the pk and no one needs it right away, I wouldn't be against giving it to the guy who died on alt. After all, he did come back and help continue the PK and contributed. But if someone else needs that eq immediately, they should get a fair shot at it. You shouldn't get it immediately just because you died. It sucks that you died. I've died plenty and no one ever gave me anything. No special treatment.

Of course if we recover someone's set and we know it is their set, they are going to get it back one way or another.

Disclaimer: All of this is of course just my opinion.

I'm basically on team pounds. You kinda summed it up pretty good in terms of distribution flow.

[granit]

There seems to be an assumption being made by almost everyone here that gear that is not immediately and obviously put on a character is not used. Gear that is not given to chars pracced for it is considered stored or traded and not in play anymore. I disagree with this (and the idea that we should only split eq to people that will use it this instant) for a bunch of reasons:

- on LS in particular there are more uses than on DS. There's a trading culture. Are you happy with a FC getting a rare staff, but not a maul? What if she trades the maul she got in a split for the staff?
- crafting and brokers exist. If we kill a dodger, everyone has a use for the sids/grings at a minimum (vials and fireworks). More uses exist than you might think of at first glance.
- splitting regardless of setup encourages players to play on whatever char they want and with whatever setup they want. FCs tend to be involved in takedowns of the players with very good eq (who tend not to die much otherwise). I don't think it's fair to deny them the eq when they put in work, especially when almost all players nowadays have alts that can use the weapons. My assumption is that even if I give a maul to a FC, it will be used on their basher.

Same principle means that absers don't get locked out of the more valuable combo drops - I'm a fan of anything that encourages more abs.

I agree with some of what others have said - eq the dead first, upgrade living pkers and give what they had to the dead, etc.

so you don't think this empowers people that store multiple rares/uniques on alts and don't play them half as much?

To address your two points: an fc is ok to roll on a maul if there isn't anyone in the group that's clubs that was in on the kill and wants to pk. OR she could just kill the bad guy solo and have it all to herself (very reasonable for the strongest class in game!) You can totally get gold rings and sids and stuff BUT!! you should not get first dibs if you can not wear them right now or swap setups to that right now. That would be like if we were over in country in the mid 2000's and you have old kevlar issued to you left over from vietnam (couple of wars ago people, welcome to the marine corps!), and a bunch of air force guys take the new kevlar that comes in.. Meanwhile, you're sitting there sweating in the sun knowing they're going to go sit in the AC at the desk on base and they're not going outside the wire... but you have to go every single day and you're still wearing your ancient vietnam issue kevlar lol. Is that fair?

Just because people do things the way they do them, doesn't mean they're right lol.. it's the same concept. I think we should gear the people that need it and can use it now vs taking it and not using it now or using it for some other reason that doesn't quite add up. I think if FC's take down a high ranking opponent, they will loads trinkets and other things they can use and benefit from so they get lots of opportunity but, if a heron loads.. guess what! Suprise! people practiced in lblades/med blades get dibs on the roll first! That's actually fair haha, and some people don't like it