ideas and thoughts from puddles about new changes to TP

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Puddles
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:59 am

ideas and thoughts from puddles about new changes to TP

Post by Puddles » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:56 pm

What problems does this change solve or attempt to address? What is the goal of this change?
These are basic questions that will help understand moving the way TP works toward this direction and why to do it.

Now I don’t have a lot of information and I am making my best guess on the majority of these statements yet I will do my best to be rational and come up with the best answers I can to these questions.

The problems with TP in its previous state that I can see are
1. The majority of TP has been accumulated by a very small number of players. I don’t have any numbers but just looking at Reaver list I can bet
that a very large % of total TP active in the mud is owned by one player and his alts (Jaster obviously).
2. New and Inexperienced players simply don’t have the tools to gain TP consistently because well they are new and inexperienced.
3. The loss of Seanchan side has reduced the total number of TP in the game (not sure this is true but it seems like a decent assumption to make)
4. It has no real value. It is just simply a measure of achievement.

There may be more issues that I haven’t considered but this seems like a decent start. In reality though these issues are not really an issue at all because TP was worth nothing but a trophy. If you get enough it puts you on a list of people that have enough and that was pretty much it.

Looking at the implementation of adding TP to smobs and adding the ability to exchange TP for QP. The problems that are directly addressed by the changes seem to be 2, 3, and 4. This makes sense because addressing problem one is going to be punishing players for using the previous system in the way it was intended to be used. The most prolific players will be punished the hardest.

Problems with the new Implementation

1. The rate of TP gain from smobbing will always be too high. Simply put there is now a low risk consistent way to gain TP. Over time the TP gained from smobbing will overtake the TP gained from PK. Right now you can gain 10 to 15 TP in about 2 hours or less. Zones repop around every hour. The amount of PK that would have to happen to consistently gain that rate would have to be non stop.
2. The killing of critical patties and smobs for TP only reduces the chances of future PK. Right now Ragan, Commy, and Kajin are consistently dead. How many players are willing to walk into the blight with 0 fall back points. PK is the driving force behind this game. The goal should be to incentivize PK.
3. Players are incentivized to avoid PK rather than engage. My first smob run for TP my group ran into 3 players outside of blodfest. We were a group of 5 trollocs. Did we engage and fight them? No. There was several different statements of why people couldn’t pk right at that moment. Instead we went back up north and killed Beast Master.


Possible Ideas?

Unrelated to TP one of the issues I see with PK in the game is when people choose to fight. I see some pretty consistent statements in narrates about how people can’t be bothered to fight certain players because they are annoying or there are too many FC’s or things of this nature (understand I play DS the majority of the time so I only have the DS as a reference point). A LS player hits the scout in gap and the first question in narrates is who is it? Once people know who the player is then people decide if they are going to participate in PK. Believe me I am very much guilty of this as well. I needed to point this out because I wanted to possibly address this problem as well as the problems with TP with my idea.

Now I don’t know what the coding limitations are or the limitations of mobol. So I am going to simply state my idea of a better implementation and hope the coding or mobol limitations don’t make this impossible.

1. Get rid of scouts in their current form. Scouts just feel outside of game like someone asking you “Hey good sir would you like a match of PK?”. Scouts purpose is to make finding PK easier but the side effect is that people only accept certain PK against players they want to fight.
2. Add new mobs (perhaps multiple locations) that narrate north of RK (for LS) and south of FD (for DS) not in a city or fortified location.
These mobs would have high health and don’t attack back. The health of the mob would reset on another player of the same faction being in the room of the mob being attacked.
3. The mobs would drop an item. This item can be turned in a single location for each side not in a city or fortified location. The turn in would require a very long timer possibly even sitting to make it very dangerous to turn in.
a. Getting attacked resets the timer.
b. Having other players of the same faction in the room during the timer resets the timer.
c. Turning in the item grants TP to all players of the same faction in the zone based on the levels and TP of the players on the opposite faction’s who list.
4. If the item is turned in and your on the opposing faction you lose TP based on your current TP and player level.
5. If the mob of your faction narrates you are given a status. The status is a type of no rent. You can still rent but if you do you lose TP based on your current TP and level.
6. If a player picks up the item of their faction the item is dissolved and returns to the mob upon repop.
7. no smobbing for tp :D


The concept of this is to give a more aligned goal to fight and make it possible for a smaller group to defend their mob and item. If the a players faction mob is killed and the item is taken then they can still defend at the turn in mob. Making the turn in mob easy to get to for the opposite side means that if a faction wants to turn in the item they are pretty much going to have to kill the opposing faction player.

What do you guys think?

Elysia
Posts: 8144
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: ideas and thoughts from puddles about new changes to TP

Post by Elysia » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:10 pm

I was in no way involved with the tp thing, but I can tell you this:

You overestimate what mobol can do and coding is unlikely, pretty much making all your ideas impossible.

Melayna
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 10:07 am

Re: ideas and thoughts from puddles about new changes to TP

Post by Melayna » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:44 pm

I think you overestimate the desire people have for TPs - I imagine the TPs changes was just so nonpkers can get some of those crafting tokens as well. While I do agree that it doesn't make much sense that those TP smobs are all up north, I'd personally rather see them given at the end of a herald quest, where they can give a 10-20 total along with the 2-3 qps. That is of course if the idea of introducing TPs from smobs was to give nonpkers a way to accumulate some TPS for the crafting tokens as well, if it was to promote PK in some way I don't really understand it.

If you opt to get TPs from smobbing instead of PK then I say you are choosing an inefficient way of getting TPs, as you said you can get a 10-15 tps from 2 hours of smobbing. Most PK sessions will net you a significant amount more than that, so I don't really see the argument there. If someone wants to get on ta/rea from smobbing, hats off to you if you want to kill a smob 1000 times to get a 2k tps or 200 qps - but for some reason I don't think the people who are likely to do that are likely to be PKers in the first place. I feel it is much the same as the people who use heralds to get qps, you can get 15? max qps from smobs a day, assuming you want to put however many hours into smobbing or you can go PK and get 2 kills and you've basically made the same qps.

Anyway I don't think putting TPs on smobs actually hurt PK, since the easiest way to get qps and tps is through PK, but I do think it is weird that it is only northern smobs that are worth TPs instead of southern ones. All it seems to be is an additional "perk" for northerners - mainly DS in my eyes, but that can be contested, instead of helping the people who are not into PK get some of those crafting tokens.

Just my two cents

Florry
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:57 am

Re: ideas and thoughts from puddles about new changes to TP

Post by Florry » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:58 pm

Melayna wrote:I think you overestimate the desire people have for TPs - I imagine the TPs changes was just so nonpkers can get some of those crafting tokens as well. While I do agree that it doesn't make much sense that those TP smobs are all up north, I'd personally rather see them given at the end of a herald quest, where they can give a 10-20 total along with the 2-3 qps. That is of course if the idea of introducing TPs from smobs was to give nonpkers a way to accumulate some TPS for the crafting tokens as well, if it was to promote PK in some way I don't really understand it.

If you opt to get TPs from smobbing instead of PK then I say you are choosing an inefficient way of getting TPs, as you said you can get a 10-15 tps from 2 hours of smobbing. Most PK sessions will net you a significant amount more than that, so I don't really see the argument there. If someone wants to get on ta/rea from smobbing, hats off to you if you want to kill a smob 1000 times to get a 2k tps or 200 qps - but for some reason I don't think the people who are likely to do that are likely to be PKers in the first place. I feel it is much the same as the people who use heralds to get qps, you can get 15? max qps from smobs a day, assuming you want to put however many hours into smobbing or you can go PK and get 2 kills and you've basically made the same qps.

Anyway I don't think putting TPs on smobs actually hurt PK, since the easiest way to get qps and tps is through PK, but I do think it is weird that it is only northern smobs that are worth TPs instead of southern ones. All it seems to be is an additional "perk" for northerners - mainly DS in my eyes, but that can be contested, instead of helping the people who are not into PK get some of those crafting tokens.

Just my two cents
The bolded part is something I agree with.

TPs are something that seems synonymous with PK, but I always felt like they should be rewarded for acts of valor. Heralds, as Melayna offered, imho seem like a very good idea. Get some QPS and TPS for ridding a nations woes. Your TPS reflect the valor and heroics you're doing, so people are actually taking note of you (ta, sei, reaver).

Rig
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Location: JESUS

Re: ideas and thoughts from puddles about new changes to TP

Post by Rig » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:03 pm

Personally I think the lists should be the 7 people with most kills in a month-3 months whatever but that's a lot of work.

My idea would to be to award say 500 TPS to the top 3 characters with the most kills in a month time span.

You have to pk and you have to survive a whole month for that 500 to even mean something.

Kryyg
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:52 am

Re: ideas and thoughts from puddles about new changes to TP

Post by Kryyg » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:15 pm

The lists have never meant much in regards to skills or quality of the PKer. If you recall there was a period of a few years where 6/7 of the Reaver list were just shitty trolloc rogues - arguably the most overpowered and bullshit class to play - a rogue with good mvs with a firetrucking broken skill that you just roll a timer and will either get a kill or not.

Now that I have vented, my problem with the Reaver list since eons has to do with activity - which was corrected with TP decay and the lack of any recognition for tons of kills but rather just playing like a pansy which is what the current lists are full of, also, they are probably at the lowest amount of TPs they have ever been. Lykan once had 20k? Dagre 15k? I don't know what Jaster has but I doubt its that high - even if he does the accumulation of TPs doesn't really matter since you lose a fixed percentage.

Closing Senchan didn't lower the number of TPs - those players just moved to other alts or chars.

I always wanted to see the top 100 or top 200 players in terms of TPs. This would obviously be viewed on the website and not in-game. The majority of mobility of ranking would occur from rank 100 to probably 6-7 and that would be fun to track/watch on a daily basis. Also, various clans could see their own top PKers and the their movement up the ranks.

Also, as Rig suggested, a separate list for maximum kills no matter the amount of deaths would be cool to see as well. Players like Jestin, Zarth, Draz,and Axo would get the recognition they deserve. Plus it might encourage people to stop playing so conservatively.

It would probably be prudent to start with fixing view ta'veran :p It still boggles my mind how we broke something that had been working flawlessly for 20 years.

Melayna
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 10:07 am

Re: ideas and thoughts from puddles about new changes to TP

Post by Melayna » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:04 am

Top 100-200? How many people do you think still play this game:P

Turg
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Re: ideas and thoughts from puddles about new changes to TP

Post by Turg » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:57 am

My guess is 20 tops

Frey
Posts: 304
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:58 pm

Re: ideas and thoughts from puddles about new changes to TP

Post by Frey » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:24 pm

Turg wrote:My guess is 20 tops
Lol pretty sure it's a lot higher than that. There were 30ish on ls alone, just this morning.

livendros
Posts: 525
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:25 am

Re: ideas and thoughts from puddles about new changes to TP

Post by livendros » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:30 pm

The same six peiple are aleays on when i was logging on. I guess i made 7. Its back to 6.

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