Clarification on policy concerning Seanchan Officers and non-clanned, non-hostile players

[Taziar]

The established practice of killing unclanneds that have not received a warrant restricts all interaction to PK only. You lose any organic recruitment from the only player base that can join the ranks of the Empire. You lose any interactions that can show the culture of Seanchan and attempt to sway the populace back to the true rule of Hawkwing’s descendants. The only arguments for killing unclanned on sight is that of laziness and fear of gear loss. Not putting in any work to actually obtain the goal of the “Return” these established practices stagnate any opportunity for change and keep the status quo by maintaining purple trolloc syndrome. By banishing unclanned in Falme and Seandar I would argue breaks the “Sealing off Clan Areas by Law” in the WoTMUD rules post. This attack on the unclanned player base also restricts any ability to play a Seanchanfriend or Seanchan Sworn to any real effect. By having to declare publicly you lose any reason to be sworn because you ostracize yourself from the player base, so only option is to join a SS clan or fight them. This again makes for PK not RP and erodes the fundamental conflict as described in the books. The number one goal of the Seanchan Empire is to convert the oath breakers back into the fold of the Empire, not to kill them all on sight.

Every argument to maintain the current environment is based on not wanting to change from purple trollocs and join the rest of LS, which if anyone didn’t notice has already happened. By allowing SS clans to adhere to the old way and not adopt LS role play standards (or higher) is a mistake in implementation. Allowing the continued dichotomy between LS and SS will result in compounded disfunction over time as the merger moves further back in time.

[Taziar]

*warrants seanchan before they even break a law*

*gets attacked by warranted seanchan*

Omg why are you doing this??

Terinor... this isn’t about SS interaction with clanned LS.

This discussion is about unclanned interaction and SS.

[Taziar]

Given the history of the Seanchan being a separate rate, making them play by an entirely new set of rules would be untenable and it would just lead to he-said-she-saids. Those who said that it is assumed that us players are heroes is correct. As a character, you are above the mere mobs, the farmers, the merchants and other people who keep their noses clean. The assumption that over a certain level a LSer was a threat was a valid one when Seanchan were a separate race was a valid one and imo this notion has not changed.

I completely disagree with this ideal Elysia, by moving the entire race over to LS you changed everything and that responsibility to enforce and manage that change (like all the other large SS changes over the years) feels like they were done without much foresight or planning. The only reason to move SS over to LS is to make them play by the same rules as LS and integrate them into the same narrative, otherwise why do it? They should of stayed purple trollocs if they were never to be held to LS standards.

[Xin]

By having to declare publicly you lose any reason to be sworn because you ostracize yourself from the player base, so only option is to join a SS clan or fight them.

Wow. Who would have thought IC actions would have IC consequences?

It really sounds like you just want to be friends with everyone and have no intention of participating in the Corenne because its just not what you want to do. That's fine, you don't have to be a Seanchan.

However, its a bit silly to think someone should be able to swear the Oaths and then just carry on being chill with Oathbreakers but also get to be chill with Seanchan.

[Rig]

Because the side was dead and the entire three race war was a garbage idea which was proven over time.

Converting them into the LS playerbase was for preservation and creating a smaller environment for a smaller playerbase.

Expecting a once separate race to adhere to the laws of Light Side just because someone got their panties in a bunch when got killed by shitty same side pk now is asking for a bit much. They're still Invaders, and they're still here to take back their land by any means necessary.

All that changed was that now everyone can see each other and they aren't purple anymore.

[raek]

The established practice of killing unclanneds that have not received a warrant restricts all interaction to PK only. You lose any organic recruitment from the only player base that can join the ranks of the Empire. You lose any interactions that can show the culture of Seanchan and attempt to sway the populace back to the true rule of Hawkwing’s descendants. The only arguments for killing unclanned on sight is that of laziness and fear of gear loss. Not putting in any work to actually obtain the goal of the “Return” these established practices stagnate any opportunity for change and keep the status quo by maintaining purple trolloc syndrome. By banishing unclanned in Falme and Seandar I would argue breaks the “Sealing off Clan Areas by Law” in the WoTMUD rules post. This attack on the unclanned player base also restricts any ability to play a Seanchanfriend or Seanchan Sworn to any real effect. By having to declare publicly you lose any reason to be sworn because you ostracize yourself from the player base, so only option is to join a SS clan or fight them. This again makes for PK not RP and erodes the fundamental conflict as described in the books. The number one goal of the Seanchan Empire is to convert the oath breakers back into the fold of the Empire, not to kill them all on sight.

Every argument to maintain the current environment is based on not wanting to change from purple trollocs and join the rest of LS, which if anyone didn’t notice has already happened. By allowing SS clans to adhere to the old way and not adopt LS role play standards (or higher) is a mistake in implementation. Allowing the continued dichotomy between LS and SS will result in compounded disfunction over time as the merger moves further back in time.

This is absolutely stated perfectly. I understand the need for some RP deviations for game balance, but an egregious one like SS attacking unclanned on site adds nothing meaningul to PK (most pkers are clanned anyway) and deviates too far from SS roleplay.

[raek]

However, its a bit silly to think someone should be able to swear the Oaths and then just carry on being chill with Oathbreakers but also get to be chill with Seanchan.

Xin, in the books, swearing the oaths did not change their lives very much. It didn't prevent the from trading with whomever they wanted, or travelling with people that possibly didn't swear the oaths. When they made the oaths, they just basically swore to keep a promise. A person that clans with an opposing army obviously isn't follow an oath, and should be hunted. However, a person who is not clanned could certainly swear the oaths and go about a normal life. Here I go brining up the damn book again.

[Terinor]

@taziar I am aware. But if I am considered such a threat to the nation to be warranted on sight, then we should give the people in that nation a reason!

[Enok]

Heh, yeah, this isn't the books.

Some people very much interpret RP in their absolute favor ALL the time. If staff is fine with that, all nations should press the borderlanders to rescind the agreement letting sushi hunt in the north with FD as a base as per this announcement (since they're killing off allies left and right).

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7672

Use the leverage of your masters to strike back! It'd be pretty sweet to see a grand meeting with 10-15 masters in an IC RP session debating this issue in game (and ultimately agreeing that the seanchan needs to be put back in their place). Also, I would want to see that log because Jestin will hit that room fully convinced he can win, but as he tactically retreats he is mercilessly slain by gate defenses while Kryyg is neighing in glee outside said gate.

[Elysia]

Because the side was dead and the entire three race war was a garbage idea which was proven over time.

Converting them into the LS playerbase was for preservation and creating a smaller environment for a smaller playerbase.

Expecting a once separate race to adhere to the laws of Light Side just because someone got their panties in a bunch when got killed by shitty same side pk now is asking for a bit much. They're still Invaders, and they're still here to take back their land by any means necessary.

All that changed was that now everyone can see each other and they aren't purple anymore.

Rig nailed it. And also a huge thing: everyone can see Seanchan on and alt in a matter of 5 minutes to join them for group activities, which is a huge boost to the side.

The idea was to make Seanchan less separate, but to maintain the way of play Seanchan had established. One could argue that there are a number of LS clans who are still treating the Seanchan as a separate race, e.g. a whole bunch of them warranting Seanchan for being Seanchan, despite not being under immediate threat of invasion, being on the other side of the map, or not being affiliated with any nation. Changing players' established ways of play does not work well, e.g. the forcing of BT and IF to stay secret 'or else'. That's why letting Seanchan play as they were was the better choice. It's a choice that is not grounded in RP, but in reality of the game and in favor of gameplay.

Even when Seanchan were a separate race, there were those who would reach out and RP with them. If anything, it has become easier to be friendly to them. But the assumption that Seanchan should be friendly when you have not proven yourself as friendly should be out the window. Essentially, how the Seanchan act now is based on interactions when they were a separate race, so this is not a case of Seanchan going 'screw rp', but in part also a result of how LS unclanned would also automatically hit 'kill seanchan'. Erasing that sort of thing by force is folly. If it changes, it should evolve naturally, either by LS clans banning the attacking of Seanchan by unclanned, or a variety of other ways other than crying 'your rp sucks, change it!'. After all, the Borderguards have proven it's possible.