Bonused clan trinks

[daal]

I just don't think you can have it both ways.

Scenario 1: Keep bonuses on clan trinkets. Keep them unlootable.

Scenario 2: Keep bonuses on clan trinkets, up the load on obsidians/gold rings (to reduce incentive to whine), make trinkets lootable, make it so the trader guy in FD and wherever else only trades vials/fireworks for bonused clan trinkets rather than the base items, set a clear, hard, and fast rule against turning in issuing to specifically trade in for vials/fireworks. Some people won't listen, but who gives a dung? QP sink. It's effectively scalps for vials again but with a far better designed mobol. Best of both worlds, IMO - you get to choose the sink: extra DB or vials. Maybe just remove the fireworks load all together and make it two clan trinkets per set of 5 vials or whatever.

Scenario 3: Remove bonuses from clan trinkets. Make them lootable. Re-implement weary merchants, remove trade for vials or make it so the trader only takes clan trinkets.

Erulak's option 3 sounds pretty perfect.

[Benito]

Scenario 2: Keep bonuses on clan trinkets, up the load on obsidians/gold rings (to reduce incentive to whine), make trinkets lootable, make it so the trader guy in FD and wherever else only trades vials/fireworks for bonused clan trinkets rather than the base items, set a clear, hard, and fast rule against turning in issuing to specifically trade in for vials/fireworks. Some people won't listen, but who gives a dung? QP sink. It's effectively scalps for vials again but with a far better designed mobol. Best of both worlds, IMO - you get to choose the sink: extra DB or vials. Maybe just remove the fireworks load all together and make it two clan trinkets per set of 5 vials or whatever.

This or 3 would be my preference. I get the idea behind having the items no-loot, but I do think it's not in the spirit of the rest of the game.

But for 2 to work, it would be important that clank trinkets with extra stats were only available through issuing, and not through giving clan mobs a base item.

[Vilac]

I just don't think you can have it both ways.

Scenario 1: Keep bonuses on clan trinkets. Keep them unlootable.

Scenario 2: Keep bonuses on clan trinkets, up the load on obsidians/gold rings (to reduce incentive to whine), make trinkets lootable, make it so the trader guy in FD and wherever else only trades vials/fireworks for bonused clan trinkets rather than the base items, set a clear, hard, and fast rule against turning in issuing to specifically trade in for vials/fireworks. Some people won't listen, but who gives a dung? QP sink. It's effectively scalps for vials again but with a far better designed mobol. Best of both worlds, IMO - you get to choose the sink: extra DB or vials. Maybe just remove the fireworks load all together and make it two clan trinkets per set of 5 vials or whatever.

Scenario 3: Remove bonuses from clan trinkets. Make them lootable. Re-implement weary merchants, remove trade for vials or make it so the trader only takes clan trinkets.

I think that's kind of the point. I don't think players care for both ways. I don't recall the players up in arms to get their clan trinkets to had 1 extra db and to also make them non loot. That was an immortal decision for whatever reason. I am quite sure the playerbase of the many vs. the few would be happier to have left them the way they are.

[Firimei Lang]

I just don't think you can have it both ways.

Scenario 1: Keep bonuses on clan trinkets. Keep them unlootable.

Scenario 2: Keep bonuses on clan trinkets, up the load on obsidians/gold rings (to reduce incentive to whine), make trinkets lootable, make it so the trader guy in FD and wherever else only trades vials/fireworks for bonused clan trinkets rather than the base items, set a clear, hard, and fast rule against turning in issuing to specifically trade in for vials/fireworks. Some people won't listen, but who gives a dung? QP sink. It's effectively scalps for vials again but with a far better designed mobol. Best of both worlds, IMO - you get to choose the sink: extra DB or vials. Maybe just remove the fireworks load all together and make it two clan trinkets per set of 5 vials or whatever.

Scenario 3: Remove bonuses from clan trinkets. Make them lootable. Re-implement weary merchants, remove trade for vials or make it so the trader only takes clan trinkets.

I think that's kind of the point. I don't think players care for both ways. I don't recall the players up in arms to get their clan trinkets to had 1 extra db and to also make them non loot. That was an immortal decision for whatever reason. I am quite sure the playerbase of the many vs. the few would be happier to have left them the way they are.

All that, along with the new Master mob smob thing. Noted I haven't a master yet, but it seems detrimental to helping others.

[erulak]

But for 2 to work, it would be important that clank trinkets with extra stats were only available through issuing, and not through giving clan mobs a base item.

Definitely, that whole exchange could just go away.

I think that's kind of the point. I don't think players care for both ways. I don't recall the players up in arms to get their clan trinkets to had 1 extra db and to also make them non loot. That was an immortal decision for whatever reason. I am quite sure the playerbase of the many vs. the few would be happier to have left them the way they are.

I do remember about a decade where people whined about dodge being unplayable though and 2-4 db can arguably make a small bit of difference there for people who can't get cuffs and such otherwise. And, weirdly, for being "the point", looking back, I don't really see anyone (besides me) hurrying to concede the extra stats, just being able to loot those clan trinkets with extra stats. But if that IS the point, I'm happy to be in agreement for the most part.

[Vilac]

But for 2 to work, it would be important that clank trinkets with extra stats were only available through issuing, and not through giving clan mobs a base item.

Definitely, that whole exchange could just go away.

I think that's kind of the point. I don't think players care for both ways. I don't recall the players up in arms to get their clan trinkets to had 1 extra db and to also make them non loot. That was an immortal decision for whatever reason. I am quite sure the playerbase of the many vs. the few would be happier to have left them the way they are.

I do remember about a decade where people whined about dodge being unplayable though and 2-4 db can arguably make a small bit of difference there for people who can't get cuffs and such otherwise. And, weirdly, for being "the point", looking back, I don't really see anyone (besides me) hurrying to concede the extra stats, just being able to loot those clan trinkets with extra stats. But if that IS the point, I'm happy to be in agreement for the most part.

I agree people complained that way. However, you and I both know the only balanced way to address dodge is to only start by tweaking the core dodge eq. Adding anything to trinkets anyone can wear will only have an affect on combo and other setups. To truly fix dodge you start with the core foundation of tweaking hood, tunic, etc. Only them can you solely address dodge itself without interfering with combo or abs.

[Rig]

I agree people complained that way. However, you and I both know the only balanced way to address dodge is to only start by tweaking the core dodge eq. Adding anything to trinkets anyone can wear will only have an affect on combo and other setups. To truly fix dodge you start with the core foundation of tweaking hood, tunic, etc. Only them can you solely address dodge itself without interfering with combo or abs.

Thissss

[erulak]

We both also know that 2-4 db on combo or abs is disproportionately negligible compared to dodge. But my point wasn't to say it was a good fix, just that it wasn't a change out of nowhere and we can't act like people weren't asking for extra DB for literally 10 years. I'm also pretty certain base dodge gear did get upped at some point in the past five or six years (or longer, I don't know, it blends in now). Anyways, dodge doesn't really need fixing, I think we're in pretty general agreement about the clan trinkets themselves.

[Vilac]

We both also know that 2-4 db on combo or abs is disproportionately negligible compared to dodge.

It's not so much the point of the tangible difference of change. It just the straight point that any adjustment to trinkets solely has no pure impact to dodge and dodge alone.

But my point wasn't to say it was a good fix, just that it wasn't a change out of nowhere and we can't act like people weren't asking for extra DB for literally 10 years. I'm also pretty certain base dodge gear did get upped at some point in the past five or six years (or longer, I don't know, it blends in now).

It was a change out of nowhere from a players standpoint unless you can point me in the direction of discussion threads that say otherwise. Better yet, if you could point me in the direction of which clans actually discussed the changes to clan trinkets to add extra stats are a perk and make them notake!

Anyways, dodge doesn't really need fixing, I think we're in pretty general agreement about the clan trinkets themselves.

If an adjustment is made to clan trinkets to revert them back to base trinkets only, perhaps core dodge would need a fixing. I am not sure if we generally agree about clan trinkets themselves because I am just saying to make them loot able as is. I believe you proposed 3 different options on which I didn't initially make a selection. From a player to player standpoint I do think we both agree the difference of the stats do not make anyone else far superior and we would continue to pk and kill as normal. But for a different level of player, just being able to loot trinkets to help them could assist with their likability to the game and their own personal gains/accomplishments.

[erulak]

because I am just saying to make them loot able as is

Doesn't really compute with

I don't think players care for both ways.

What exactly did you think I meant when I said players want it both ways? The trade-off for bonused gear is clearly NOTAKE. Here's you wanting it both ways.

I also don't know very many changes where the player base decides exactly how a change is going to happen, but like I said, there's literally a decade of whining about dodge that you can go through. And please, let's just not pretend 136 to 140 db isn't the real impact here vs. 90 db to 94 db or 50 db to 54 db.