America....

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
sauin
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:01 am

Re: America....

Post by sauin » Sat May 20, 2017 2:12 am

Given you've decided to abandon civility I think we should bring this towards a conclusion.
faul wrote: Now you're getting it. firetrucking finally. Of course, minus the part that you don't recognize any democratic process as democratic unless it's exactly the democratic process you're thinking of, but incremental progress is still progress, good job.
The last time I checked, the notion of democracy included the idea that one person is one vote, rather than these special people I appointed are worth 10,000 votes each. It's not even a three fifths compromise, it's a 10000:1 between your (and I will continue to call them this because it is what they are) political aristocracy and everybody else.

You claim that I don't know how your aristocrats are selected, again you continue to presume my argument and my stance for me. The three categories are elected officials, delegates for life by being ex-President or Vice President, or simply be a member of the DNC as a powerbroker or activist. Of the 719 superdelegates 438 fall into this third category, they need not ever have been elected by the public or served a term in office. All they need is the ability to draw funds to the party.

Unelected, check. Wield power beyond the ken of normal men, check. Control the majority of the votes in the DNC, check. There's your political aristocracy. And there's your corporate and financial interests directly controlling your candidates, commerce and growth ahead of human interests.

But to summarise and conclude.
Fundamentally you're claiming that the ends justify the means, which given the very premise of a democracy is a mechanism or the means by which to elect a leader, shows that you, like the party mechanism you are defending do not give a damn about it. It's the same argument with the party charter, that's supposed to be a document that dictates what actions are and are not allowed by the party and its members, what constitute acceptable means. It's the geneva convention of the democrat party. And once again you would throw it aside to achieve whatever your ends are.

So I have to ask why, what is so important that your side win at any cost, that the *right* person be nominated despite the wishes of the electorate, that candidates who are not the *right* candidate be given short shift and shafted, again with little to no regard for the wishes of the electorate. Or in short, why you are so eager to implement an out and out near dictatorial mandate for the nomination of democratic party presidential candidates.

What is so inherently wrong with, for example a person winning who you disagree with if the majority of people consider them to the the least worst option.

Guest
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 11:52 am

Re: America....

Post by Guest » Sat May 20, 2017 11:55 am

Still a moot point since Bernie got his ass kicked in the popular vote.

Paj

Re: America....

Post by Paj » Sat May 20, 2017 1:18 pm

Registering as Guest. Hilarious use of the system.

Zanadu
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:00 am

Re: America....

Post by Zanadu » Sat May 20, 2017 2:59 pm

But we aren't a democracy....at least not a true democracy. We are a democratic republic.

Guest
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 11:52 am

Re: America....

Post by Guest » Sat May 20, 2017 3:46 pm

Paj wrote:Registering as Guest. Hilarious use of the system.
If they are going to force me to register just to reply then I'm going to have some fun.

sauin
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:01 am

Re: America....

Post by sauin » Sat May 20, 2017 7:43 pm

Guest wrote:Still a moot point since Bernie got his ass kicked in the popular vote.
Hello guest, if you took the time to re-read the previous posts you would see that this isn't the point in contention.

Guest1.2
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 9:50 pm

Re: America....

Post by Guest1.2 » Sat May 20, 2017 9:59 pm

sauin wrote:
Guest wrote:Still a moot point since Bernie got his ass kicked in the popular vote.
Hello guest, if you took the time to re-read the previous posts you would see that this isn't the point in contention.

Blah blah, "despite the wishes of the electorate." But clearly you don't give a dung about the electorate. Blah blah "if a majority of the people," but once again, that is not the issue. If you agreed somewhere in one of your many lengthy posts that yes, Bernie lost and deserved to lose 100% because he lost by millions of votes and you are being completely hypothetical, then I did not see it. But it sure doesn't look that way. You whined and whined about Bernie losing when he was the weaker candidate who got crushed by the vote. There may be flaws in the system, but they did not come out in the last Democratic primaries to change the election.

Voices of the Wheel
Posts: 363
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: America....

Post by Voices of the Wheel » Sat May 20, 2017 10:11 pm

Could people kindly stop creating bogus accounts and posting under them?

There are several issues at play here, and none of them have to do with curbing your freedom to express yourselves, so please cease this behavior because it is creating extra work for us.

In March, Staff was discussing a more defined forum policy regarding strikes and we decided that we wanted to disable Guest posting in all forums excepting Help. When we posted the new policy regarding forum strikes in April, we had asked the Admin to disable Guest posting. It turns out this never did happen. See here for the relevant announcement: http://forums.wotmud.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4282

Then a banned player started posting in this thread, which alerted us to the oversight. This was then rectified. Ergo, the disabling of Guest posting has nothing to do with this thread, or anyone's freedom of speech, but with belatedly executing a previously decided policy.

~WoTmud Staff

Rig
Posts: 2292
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: JESUS

Re: America....

Post by Rig » Sat May 20, 2017 10:28 pm

Aha! The REAL off-topic ones are are the Voices! Shoulda known!

sauin
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:01 am

Re: America....

Post by sauin » Sun May 21, 2017 2:19 am

Guest,
Firstly the point that bernie lost the popular vote was brought up, and faul made exactly the same statement that you are making here (except in a far more civilized manner). The point wasnt that "bernie should have won", he lose the popular vote. The point was that in using the methods the DNC did they broke their own charter and are currently in court defending the notion that they are not required to be impartial in their own elections, depsite their charter explicitly stating that, and what this means for confidence in the DNC after they have set this precedent
Guest1.2 wrote: Blah blah, "despite the wishes of the electorate."
The second point is that in 2008 hillary won the popular vote, but lost the overall nomination solely due to the actions of the DNC superdelegates. Please stop trying to mix these two cases to claim that I am making false statements.

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