Hello knowledgeable peoples of the Wotmudverse! I have a question for you.
Does a weapons condition (when you diagnose weapon) effect it's damage, bash, stab, charge landing chances, ect, in any way?
Ie : A massive war maul is fully mended, but in fair (durability) condition. Does anything change OB, Dmg, Bash landing rate, ect due to being in fair condition? Or does durability condition only effect how many hits it'll take before the weapon changes durability state? (IE scratched, blunt, ect) and require to be mended?
My examples a massive war maul, but the same question can be asked for short blades, stab landing and stab dmg. Also spears, charge landing, charge dmg, ect? Does weapon condition (pristine, excellent, good, fair, ?) or weapon state (scratched, blunt, ?) effect these also?
Any and all ideas, speculations, theories or tested and proven facts are welcome.
Weapon Condition Questions :
Re: Weapon Condition Questions :
Weapon state: blunt, scratched, ect affects dmg and I'm fairly certain trying to stab with a scratched dagger is impossible.
Re: Weapon Condition Questions :
I think the generally held belief is overall condition (pristine, excellent, etc.) has no effect except to hasten the current condition (nothing, scratched, etc.) worsening, while the current condition lowers damage, bash, landing rate, etc.
I'm not sure anyone has done any testing, but it would be interesting to do. In my experience, damage rolls do have a noticeable difference as current condition drops, even before the condition change shows (I can sometimes tell while EXPing when my weapon is going to be scratched soon based on the damage rolls).
As far as landing goes, I think most people will agree scratched or otherwise damaged weapons will land significantly worse. The evidence for bash is less, but I think it still probably has some effect.
I'm not sure anyone has done any testing, but it would be interesting to do. In my experience, damage rolls do have a noticeable difference as current condition drops, even before the condition change shows (I can sometimes tell while EXPing when my weapon is going to be scratched soon based on the damage rolls).
As far as landing goes, I think most people will agree scratched or otherwise damaged weapons will land significantly worse. The evidence for bash is less, but I think it still probably has some effect.
Re: Weapon Condition Questions :
Agreed, I have that too. And then I type exa weapon all the time to see if it's scratched yet.Weir wrote:In my experience, damage rolls do have a noticeable difference as current condition drops, even before the condition change shows (I can sometimes tell while EXPing when my weapon is going to be scratched soon based on the damage rolls).
Re: Weapon Condition Questions :
Weir wrote:I think the generally held belief is overall condition (pristine, excellent, etc.) has no effect except to hasten the current condition (nothing, scratched, etc.) worsening, while the current condition lowers damage, bash, landing rate, etc.
I'm not sure anyone has done any testing, but it would be interesting to do. In my experience, damage rolls do have a noticeable difference as current condition drops, even before the condition change shows (I can sometimes tell while EXPing when my weapon is going to be scratched soon based on the damage rolls).
As far as landing goes, I think most people will agree scratched or otherwise damaged weapons will land significantly worse. The evidence for bash is less, but I think it still probably has some effect.
Thank you for that post. I agree with what you are suggesting and also agree that this is the general held belief.
I think then, we can state that :
Every weapons "overall condition" has different "hidden" states.
Every weapon has a set number of hits it can record before changing "overall condition" (freshly mended, scratched, blunt, decrepit, shattered)
For the following theory, I want to add that Hress' weapon damage testing showed that "After 1-2 hits it gives at most times for most weapons damage -1". Which leads me to believe that after another set number of hits, another hidden damage modifier is applied before the actual state (freshly mended, scratched, ect) is changed.
The following is just an idea/theory with no proof (yet!) about hits vs hidden states and penalties associated :
100% freshly mended = 100 hits
- 100/100 fully mended
- 80/100 -1 dmg
- 60/100 -2 dmg
- 40/100 -3 dmg
- 20/100 -4 dmg
- 1/100 -5 dmg
- 0/100 = Scratcehd
100% Scratched = 80 hits
- 60/80 -2 dmg
- 40/80 -3 dmg
- 20/80 -4 dmg
- 1/80 -5 dmg
100% Blunt = 60 hits
- 40/60 -3 dmg
- 20/60 -4 dmg
- 1/60 -5 dmg
100% Decrepit = 40 hist
- 20/40 -4 dmg
- 1/40 -5 dmg
POOF : Weapon Shatters!
The above makes me wonder, does anyone know how many hits it takes a freshly mended weapon in pristine/ excellent/ good/ fair/ poor condition to become scratched, then blunt, then decrepit, then shatter?
Are there more more conditions? (freshly mended, scratched, blunt, decrepit, shattered)
Do different weapons have different durabilities? IE. longer to scratch a long blade vs a lance? I think throwing knives/spikes scratch fast?
Would this mean there's a set maximum damage penalty per hidden state level of degradation?
Do you have any other ideas, thoughts or theories? Ask away! Share the knowledge, share the wealth!
Re: Weapon Condition Questions :
It's less a question of hits than damage dealt, I believe. All weapons (and armor for that matter) have a "durability" stat.
Let's say for argument that a weapon has a durability of 1000, which when pristine is both its max and current condition. Damage output is likely equal to dmg roll x current condition / max condition, rounded in some way. Your first hit will be unmodified. Let's say it rolls 25. Then let's say the next hit rolls 25 again, its output is 25 x 975 / 1000 = 24.375, which will either be 24 or 25 depending on the rounding function used. 3rd hit happens to be 25 again, and now shows as 25 x 950 / 1000 = 23.75, which will be 23 or 24.
Generally I would imagine that higher-damage weapons will have higher durability values, though I'm sure in some cases (lances maybe?) it is not. I do know from a previous imm post that there is a max value for durability of armor items, and so likely too with weapons.
Mending follows a process where it restores current condition to a new max condition which is less than the previous max condition (pristine becomes excellent, etc), these descriptions comparing current max to its set durability. Scratched and similar terms compare current condition to current max condition.
I've got some data and a graph or two somewhere. Will try to fish them out this weekend if I can find time.
Let's say for argument that a weapon has a durability of 1000, which when pristine is both its max and current condition. Damage output is likely equal to dmg roll x current condition / max condition, rounded in some way. Your first hit will be unmodified. Let's say it rolls 25. Then let's say the next hit rolls 25 again, its output is 25 x 975 / 1000 = 24.375, which will either be 24 or 25 depending on the rounding function used. 3rd hit happens to be 25 again, and now shows as 25 x 950 / 1000 = 23.75, which will be 23 or 24.
Generally I would imagine that higher-damage weapons will have higher durability values, though I'm sure in some cases (lances maybe?) it is not. I do know from a previous imm post that there is a max value for durability of armor items, and so likely too with weapons.
Mending follows a process where it restores current condition to a new max condition which is less than the previous max condition (pristine becomes excellent, etc), these descriptions comparing current max to its set durability. Scratched and similar terms compare current condition to current max condition.
I've got some data and a graph or two somewhere. Will try to fish them out this weekend if I can find time.
Re: Weapon Condition Questions :
Very interesting Thuvia! I'd be very curious to see those graphs. And following your idea, I've come up with the two following theories.
Just throwing out two theories.
Theory 1 :
A weapon in Pristine condition and Fully mended has absolutely no penalty and hits for max damage for a few hits before inuring a -1 dmg penalty. (As per Hress' research)
A weapon in Excellent condition and Fully mended has a penalty and hits as for max damage - penalty before inuring a -1 dmg penalty. (Like it would normally in pristine condition)
A weapon in Good condition and Fully mended has a greater penalty and hits for max damage - a greater penalty before incurring a -1 dmg penalty. (Like it would normally in pristine condition)
And so on.
Theory 1 : A weapon IS effected by it's Condition Status (Pristine, Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor) ontop of any usage penalties.
IE : A weapon in fair condition starts with a (fictitious number) -3 penalty to damage and incurs additional penalties through regular usage faster than the same weapon in pristine condition who would start fresh with 0 penalties and also incur penalties slower than the fair weapon.
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Theory 2 :
A weapon in Pristine condition and Fully mended has no penalty and hits for max damage for a few hits before incurring a -1 dmg penalty. But also can hit for (fictitious number) 500 times before becoming scratched.
A weapon in Excellent condition and Fully mended has no penalty and hits for max damage for a few hits before incurring a -1 dmg penalty. But can only hit 400 times before becoming scratched.
A weapon in Good condition and Fully mended has no penalty and hits for max damage for a few hits before incurring a -1 dmg penalty. But can only hit 300 times before becoming scratched.
And so on.
Theory 2 : A weapons Condition Status does NOT effect a fully mended weapons Damage output initially but rather it simply degenerates quicker than previous status' depending on it's current status.
IE: A fair condition weapon will degrade and incur damage penalties quicker than a weapon in pristine condition before reaching the Scratched condition. Therefor, unbeknownst to the wielder as there is no visual cue, a wielder of a fair condition weapon's weapon damage output will decrease throughout regular use quicker than the same weapon in pristine condition before ever actually reaching the "scratched" status.
Personally, I am leaning towards Theory number 2. What do you think?
Just throwing out two theories.
Theory 1 :
A weapon in Pristine condition and Fully mended has absolutely no penalty and hits for max damage for a few hits before inuring a -1 dmg penalty. (As per Hress' research)
A weapon in Excellent condition and Fully mended has a penalty and hits as for max damage - penalty before inuring a -1 dmg penalty. (Like it would normally in pristine condition)
A weapon in Good condition and Fully mended has a greater penalty and hits for max damage - a greater penalty before incurring a -1 dmg penalty. (Like it would normally in pristine condition)
And so on.
Theory 1 : A weapon IS effected by it's Condition Status (Pristine, Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor) ontop of any usage penalties.
IE : A weapon in fair condition starts with a (fictitious number) -3 penalty to damage and incurs additional penalties through regular usage faster than the same weapon in pristine condition who would start fresh with 0 penalties and also incur penalties slower than the fair weapon.
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Theory 2 :
A weapon in Pristine condition and Fully mended has no penalty and hits for max damage for a few hits before incurring a -1 dmg penalty. But also can hit for (fictitious number) 500 times before becoming scratched.
A weapon in Excellent condition and Fully mended has no penalty and hits for max damage for a few hits before incurring a -1 dmg penalty. But can only hit 400 times before becoming scratched.
A weapon in Good condition and Fully mended has no penalty and hits for max damage for a few hits before incurring a -1 dmg penalty. But can only hit 300 times before becoming scratched.
And so on.
Theory 2 : A weapons Condition Status does NOT effect a fully mended weapons Damage output initially but rather it simply degenerates quicker than previous status' depending on it's current status.
IE: A fair condition weapon will degrade and incur damage penalties quicker than a weapon in pristine condition before reaching the Scratched condition. Therefor, unbeknownst to the wielder as there is no visual cue, a wielder of a fair condition weapon's weapon damage output will decrease throughout regular use quicker than the same weapon in pristine condition before ever actually reaching the "scratched" status.
Personally, I am leaning towards Theory number 2. What do you think?