Yes, it seems very hard (maybe impossible) to have a good amount of weapons and balanced with master damage. Is it coding to remove master damage? Another idea is give everyone master damage at rank 1 in all clans (also sounds like coding).
Master damage + short blades vs ABS is kind of a ridiculous amount of damage (I kind of think master damage is added after damage is reduced by ABS but I'm not sure)...
Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
+1 to what Enok said, and agree that it's hard to balance things with so many weapons. Also really like the idea of 1 unique/class - means uniques are a little more valuable and something cool. Don't get me wrong it's fun to have, but it's starting to feel a little like when uniques were no-rent - at this point we have so many that having a unique just isn't that special.
Also like upping abs for obvious reasons. But even beside my own bias, abs usually results in more kills across the board and can lead to a really fun dynamic - nothing really beats a group of absers rolling together and smashing whatever comes their way. Except maybe an even bigger group of absers, but I digress.
Also like upping abs for obvious reasons. But even beside my own bias, abs usually results in more kills across the board and can lead to a really fun dynamic - nothing really beats a group of absers rolling together and smashing whatever comes their way. Except maybe an even bigger group of absers, but I digress.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
The new 2handed dagger (a set of steel sai) needs a little help, either:
lower damage and change to pierce for attack (and stab)
or
raise the damage and leave the rest as is.
I can understand why there isn't the desire to add another 2 handed stabbing weapon, but as it stands it feels better to just go abs/stab with a cc/jade/red if praced for dirks as you can be more helpful in melee. As to the stabbing issue... you can always just weapon swap, worse case you get hit on brikked stab lag for a round before you can swap back to the defensive version... so im not convinced that making it non-stab is really doing much.
Maybe look at how Tulwar fits in the fencing blade class and adjust a set of steel sai similarly.
lower damage and change to pierce for attack (and stab)
or
raise the damage and leave the rest as is.
I can understand why there isn't the desire to add another 2 handed stabbing weapon, but as it stands it feels better to just go abs/stab with a cc/jade/red if praced for dirks as you can be more helpful in melee. As to the stabbing issue... you can always just weapon swap, worse case you get hit on brikked stab lag for a round before you can swap back to the defensive version... so im not convinced that making it non-stab is really doing much.
Maybe look at how Tulwar fits in the fencing blade class and adjust a set of steel sai similarly.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
It's coding to separate master bonuses. E.g. I can't remove master damage without also removing mob lead and postures. And note, just removing the master flag from players (and thus causing them to lose mob lead) is absolutely not an option because the same moblead, postures and damage are coded into fades and dreadlords and that flag can't be removed from them by removing the flag. You'll just have to live with it. Even if I could get x amount of coding done right now, which simply is not currently the case, I'd argue that should go into things like statting, so in that sense changes to masters wouldn't even be a priority.
I'm also not going into uniques or rares. There is more to this game than uniques and rares and there's enough weapons to look at without adding
I do agree with the person who said that some classes got heaps of useless options, like staves for example. It might just be better to not try to make them different, but just copy a stat template and apply that to multiple indiviual weapons. That said, I'd actually prefer if medium blades and long blades were merged into one class, but I didn't estimate the chances of that to be very high so I just generally upped meds instead. I don't really feel the class has a place in the game though.
I'm not a fan of removing 2h longblades altogether. In part because that's what the weapons in WoT were - Rand wielded his heron with 2 hands and had to adapt later on. Secondly, having one item less to equip is a good thing for casual players and newer players. Lastly, there are those who have low int and this gives them another option besides polearms/staves. Ideally, 1h anything + shield parry should give a boost compared to 2h options though. Something I admittedly got wrong in some places, but that's why we're doing this feedback thing.
I'm also not going into uniques or rares. There is more to this game than uniques and rares and there's enough weapons to look at without adding
I do agree with the person who said that some classes got heaps of useless options, like staves for example. It might just be better to not try to make them different, but just copy a stat template and apply that to multiple indiviual weapons. That said, I'd actually prefer if medium blades and long blades were merged into one class, but I didn't estimate the chances of that to be very high so I just generally upped meds instead. I don't really feel the class has a place in the game though.
I'm not a fan of removing 2h longblades altogether. In part because that's what the weapons in WoT were - Rand wielded his heron with 2 hands and had to adapt later on. Secondly, having one item less to equip is a good thing for casual players and newer players. Lastly, there are those who have low int and this gives them another option besides polearms/staves. Ideally, 1h anything + shield parry should give a boost compared to 2h options though. Something I admittedly got wrong in some places, but that's why we're doing this feedback thing.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
I agree with you on that if someone is going 1h + shield then that should give better defense than 2h setups.
The one weapon that's in the two handed defensive category that does have a clearer tradeoff is the leatherleaf staff since it does have more pb for less ob when compared to the jagged sword. Other than that most of the weapons are just poorer versions of another weapon, or the differences aren't enough to justify practicing a lower use weapon like the polearms due to having to smob each one rather than getting them from pk.
I disagree with people who say everyone is superstated right now. Newer ls hunters for example have it really rough trying to get stats better than something like 19 17 18 which is what I am with okay mentals.
I would say the balance of 1 handed weapons are definitely what needs to be looked at first, and I'd like to remind people that jagged on a non-master really does have rather poor pb, to the point where you get hit unbashed often enough to notice how annoying it is!
The one weapon that's in the two handed defensive category that does have a clearer tradeoff is the leatherleaf staff since it does have more pb for less ob when compared to the jagged sword. Other than that most of the weapons are just poorer versions of another weapon, or the differences aren't enough to justify practicing a lower use weapon like the polearms due to having to smob each one rather than getting them from pk.
I disagree with people who say everyone is superstated right now. Newer ls hunters for example have it really rough trying to get stats better than something like 19 17 18 which is what I am with okay mentals.
I would say the balance of 1 handed weapons are definitely what needs to be looked at first, and I'd like to remind people that jagged on a non-master really does have rather poor pb, to the point where you get hit unbashed often enough to notice how annoying it is!
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Another suggestion (not 100% if its a good one): if modifying the weapons again make the differences drastic and noticeable for about 3 months and then squeeze them closer together. This will give everyone a good sense of the strengths/weaknesses where is the differences are very small (which long term they probably will be) it won't be very obvious what str/weaknesses each weapon has. This is especially true for damage and bash that don't have a visible stat to represent them.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Nvm.
Last edited by Enok on Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
I think the problem with balancing weapons are the master postures. I just recently played jagged on a 18 str ranger with no postures, and the defense is pretty horrid. Something like 94db 132 pb. Now when that is paired with the 15 pb from postures it becomes pretty sick, but without it really isn't that good. Could just be me I find them fairly balanced for nonmasters, problem is that everything else is just bad compared to it, though I guess the barbed trident is a decent option, regardless of the lowered OB.
Personally would like to see blue steel trident's OB upped a bit, its pb is rather low - lower than jagged if memory serves me right.
I had really high hopes for 1h clubs being a viable class again, but I had thought that would happen through upping of bone club, it really needs a slight upping of damage/ob to be viable.
Personally think saw toothed could use its bash upped and maybe pb lowered a notch to make up for it
Personally would like to see blue steel trident's OB upped a bit, its pb is rather low - lower than jagged if memory serves me right.
I had really high hopes for 1h clubs being a viable class again, but I had thought that would happen through upping of bone club, it really needs a slight upping of damage/ob to be viable.
Personally think saw toothed could use its bash upped and maybe pb lowered a notch to make up for it
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
The damage on saw toothed is really good, but the bash is not. CC and jade probably do a tiny bit too much melee damage.
I don't see a real problem with 2h lblades, the game seems pretty balanced at the moment between the three setups. I'd say combo is more a culprit in making 2h lblades seem too good than the weapons themselves. Dodge is much more taxing on pracs than combo and if 2h lblades were downed dodge would suffer disproportionately, keep that in mind. Also, when you're forced to be level 51 in order to get everything, I wouldn't exactly call that a superabundance. Before the recent lblade changes dodge wasn't super viable for non-masters, so I'd like that not to change! Anyway, 2h lblades aren't really on-topic so I probably shouldn't contribute to the digression any further....
I don't see a real problem with 2h lblades, the game seems pretty balanced at the moment between the three setups. I'd say combo is more a culprit in making 2h lblades seem too good than the weapons themselves. Dodge is much more taxing on pracs than combo and if 2h lblades were downed dodge would suffer disproportionately, keep that in mind. Also, when you're forced to be level 51 in order to get everything, I wouldn't exactly call that a superabundance.
Before the recent lblade changes dodge wasn't super viable for non-masters, so I'd like that not to change! Anyway, 2h lblades aren't really on-topic so I probably shouldn't contribute to the digression any further....Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
I agree with this. Jagged has felt way different to me since the changes and, it might be anecdotal, but I've felt like 2h defensive longs have been harder to come by in PK, which to me suggests they're not being used as much.Ragyn wrote:I just recently played jagged on a 18 str ranger with no postures, and the defense is pretty horrid. Something like 94db 132 pb. Now when that is paired with the 15 pb from postures it becomes pretty sick, but without it really isn't that good. Could just be me I find them fairly balanced for nonmasters....
With abs weapons, it feels like there is a significant enough choice between longs, axes, and clubs that they could be left more or less as they are. For combo weapons, would anyone notice or mind if 1h axes and polearms (for instance) were phased out? If medium blades were phased out, is there some place they hold that couldn't be taken care of between fencing blades, 1h longs, and 1h clubs? Right now, the only unique effect they have is gleamer swirl. It seems like part of the trick of balancing is that there are just so many different items to take care of at the same time, and so the next step might be reducing the total number of items.
I think it's good to have both 2h defensive and offensive longs, just because it allows for more variety of equipping when you die, and switching between abs and combo. I don't think that variety has to be maintained across multiple classes of weapons.