As I sit here majestically drinking my coffee and reading this thread, I realize even more than the last post I made that I basically know nothing about this game! Seriously, I don't know half the mobs/smobs mentioned lol. I can say however that personally I've had no bad dealings with Draz - but this is coming from a pk only player so my interactions are limited to PK.
My contribution to this thread would just simply be this: Draz, you seem to fall into the category of players that have invested MASSIVE amounts of time into the game and are in the "love you or hate you" profile. That's fine - nothing wrong with people liking you or not liking you. I think a decent amount of animosity is good in a PK driven game.
It's clear that the main issue people seem to have is you abusing the game for easy gains whether it be EQ or QPS and to that I'd say just step back and take a deep breath and realize that while cool eq and higher ranks etc are nice goals - they're not necessary to have fun. Keep pking aggressive like you do and just win/die and move on! Play the game within the intended boundaries and all will go well!
Fostering an Accountable Community
Re: Fostering an Accountable Community
Hello Everyone,
I've been following the thread since it started and didn't want to opine as like Habbakus said, I also realize that I know nothing at all about this game after all these years.
On the topic of Draz:
It seems that Draz feels some of the punishments were excessive and unjust and Imms feel they were just and possibly could have been more excessive since Draz continues to abuse the mechanics of the game. But taking the game as a whole into account, I would like to say the following.
(Disclaimer: I've been playing along side Draz and his alts for a long time as well as most of you old heads so this is not coming from a bad place at all as I enjoy playing with him/against him.)
First of all, Draz just stop it! Take ownership of what has transpired so far and move on. If you feel some of the punishments were excessive then appeal and hope for the best. Also, if you ever notice ANYTHING that you think is not working as it should, then report it IMMEDIATELY through the channels given to you by the IMMs. Secondly, I would like to thank the Imms for not completely banning his arse from the game as Draz offers value to this game in other areas that are very much needed at the current state the game finds itself with a low population.
Like Vampa said, Draz is a high ranking player of this game with a lot of knowledge. Draz chooses to create movement on LS that is needed as not everyone on is waiting for pk. There are a lot of people on LS that wait for him to form smobbing groups and those that also follow him when he starts pk and gets things going. These are crucial things, imo, that are very much needed for the game. I know there are players out there that have a lot or more knowledge than Draz but they may not add to the game in these areas.
With that being said, we are ALL GUESTS in this game and we ALL need to abide by the house rules as unfair as you think they may be.
In conclusion, hate him or love him Draz is good for the game as a whole. Now, should this give him total immunity, like never being banned from the game, no matter how many abuses he commits, NO. Draz needs to learn to abide by the rules and Imms will hopefully work with him to alleviate some of his punishments as they see true changes and commitment from him. We spent 13 pages on this topic which means we are passionate and LOVE this fking game (excuse my language).
I've been following the thread since it started and didn't want to opine as like Habbakus said, I also realize that I know nothing at all about this game after all these years.
On the topic of Draz:
It seems that Draz feels some of the punishments were excessive and unjust and Imms feel they were just and possibly could have been more excessive since Draz continues to abuse the mechanics of the game. But taking the game as a whole into account, I would like to say the following.
(Disclaimer: I've been playing along side Draz and his alts for a long time as well as most of you old heads so this is not coming from a bad place at all as I enjoy playing with him/against him.)
First of all, Draz just stop it! Take ownership of what has transpired so far and move on. If you feel some of the punishments were excessive then appeal and hope for the best. Also, if you ever notice ANYTHING that you think is not working as it should, then report it IMMEDIATELY through the channels given to you by the IMMs. Secondly, I would like to thank the Imms for not completely banning his arse from the game as Draz offers value to this game in other areas that are very much needed at the current state the game finds itself with a low population.
Like Vampa said, Draz is a high ranking player of this game with a lot of knowledge. Draz chooses to create movement on LS that is needed as not everyone on is waiting for pk. There are a lot of people on LS that wait for him to form smobbing groups and those that also follow him when he starts pk and gets things going. These are crucial things, imo, that are very much needed for the game. I know there are players out there that have a lot or more knowledge than Draz but they may not add to the game in these areas.
With that being said, we are ALL GUESTS in this game and we ALL need to abide by the house rules as unfair as you think they may be.
In conclusion, hate him or love him Draz is good for the game as a whole. Now, should this give him total immunity, like never being banned from the game, no matter how many abuses he commits, NO. Draz needs to learn to abide by the rules and Imms will hopefully work with him to alleviate some of his punishments as they see true changes and commitment from him. We spent 13 pages on this topic which means we are passionate and LOVE this fking game (excuse my language).
Re: Fostering an Accountable Community
Re: Fostering an Accountable Community
Just a thought on the above.
One of the key points here is around me doing things that aren't technically against the rules.
I.e. Cityhits aren't a problem..if the player only plays once a week. If its Draz'o clock however.. or as an alternate example if Aes Sedai/warder smash groups camp Amador for a month..
The clear and intentional cheating was straight forward, and what was identified as being considered cheating or unintended hasn't been repeated in similar fashions (I think, could easily be wrong).
If its just a matter of don't break rules (as understood); everything else is covered... but thats not the issue.
I remembered another direction I was given btw, never ever order a mob to disengage/engage more than once in a round; even if my context is realising the mob got agroed on the wrong target, imms can't see that logic or thought process.
One of the key points here is around me doing things that aren't technically against the rules.
I.e. Cityhits aren't a problem..if the player only plays once a week. If its Draz'o clock however.. or as an alternate example if Aes Sedai/warder smash groups camp Amador for a month..
The clear and intentional cheating was straight forward, and what was identified as being considered cheating or unintended hasn't been repeated in similar fashions (I think, could easily be wrong).
If its just a matter of don't break rules (as understood); everything else is covered... but thats not the issue.
I remembered another direction I was given btw, never ever order a mob to disengage/engage more than once in a round; even if my context is realising the mob got agroed on the wrong target, imms can't see that logic or thought process.
Re: Fostering an Accountable Community
That has been communicated as abuse to the mud at large and individuals. You can spam them, while the mechanic as a player has a delay. Thus, the mob being able to do that without the delay is the bug. It's just a flat out "don't do it" so we don't have to get into "oh, but it was because of", because then you get gray areas.
Similar issues with mobs not having a timer to charge being problematic. Player coding is the base standard, if mobs deviate from it, it's safe to assume it's unintended/ bug and if it makes something easier/ quicker/ better than it would usually be, it'd be abuse.
Re: Fostering an Accountable Community
Chiming in as one of the few(?) who has been positively affected by Draz.
For context, pre-2020 I very rarely - if ever - ventured outside of Caemlyn/Andor.
I decided to hop on a Draz smob train - and many more Draz smob trains - which often turned into a blight / Jafar / RK / Seandar excursion(s). The group slew - and were slain by (admittedly much less frequently) - trollocs, fades, seanchan, and the occasional darkfriend/MC/greyman [cue 'A Whole New World' - Aladdin].
Except for when I solo trapped four Defenders in Caemlyn Palace in the Andor-Tear war (RIP OP oil/arrow mobol), grouping with Draz and co was unequivocally the most fun I've had over any period I've been around the mud. I'd achieved more - both in knowledge and QPs/gear - in one year than in ~15 years of intermittent play.
In some ideal world, I might have found it within myself to be self-motivated enough to explore these places and create my own action, but it's highly doubtful - and impossible in the same period.
Maybe perspective matters - As a relatively old but uninformed/inexperienced player, I greatly enjoyed and benefited from being in the presence of someone willing to knowledge share and be inclusive; I daresay any newer player would feel similarly. I realise on the other side of the coin, those same traits can explain why those who might feel themselves among his peers - or even superior to him - might feel differently.
Regarding punishments: No-bonus seems right for a time; it inconveniences enough and the punishee can still function without it.
However, no-TAR for any period is wildly off the mark; it neuters what is currently a main draw for groups, hence is much too non-inclusive for our playerbase. Please consider halting this as a punishment for anyone - It is counter-productive.
For context, pre-2020 I very rarely - if ever - ventured outside of Caemlyn/Andor.
I decided to hop on a Draz smob train - and many more Draz smob trains - which often turned into a blight / Jafar / RK / Seandar excursion(s). The group slew - and were slain by (admittedly much less frequently) - trollocs, fades, seanchan, and the occasional darkfriend/MC/greyman [cue 'A Whole New World' - Aladdin].
Except for when I solo trapped four Defenders in Caemlyn Palace in the Andor-Tear war (RIP OP oil/arrow mobol), grouping with Draz and co was unequivocally the most fun I've had over any period I've been around the mud. I'd achieved more - both in knowledge and QPs/gear - in one year than in ~15 years of intermittent play.
In some ideal world, I might have found it within myself to be self-motivated enough to explore these places and create my own action, but it's highly doubtful - and impossible in the same period.
Maybe perspective matters - As a relatively old but uninformed/inexperienced player, I greatly enjoyed and benefited from being in the presence of someone willing to knowledge share and be inclusive; I daresay any newer player would feel similarly. I realise on the other side of the coin, those same traits can explain why those who might feel themselves among his peers - or even superior to him - might feel differently.
Regarding punishments: No-bonus seems right for a time; it inconveniences enough and the punishee can still function without it.
However, no-TAR for any period is wildly off the mark; it neuters what is currently a main draw for groups, hence is much too non-inclusive for our playerbase. Please consider halting this as a punishment for anyone - It is counter-productive.
Re: Fostering an Accountable Community
I'd probably still play if being petty and toxic wasn't rampant in the game. Biggest QOL improvement for me was logging off one day and not logging back in. Treat people right, stop taking people's things away they worked hard for, and don't let others be jerks to people. Best advice I've got for ya if you're still kicking the can around.
Re: Fostering an Accountable Community
While it may be useful to think through the lens of a psychologist, remember, this is a game. From my perspective, when it comes to behavioral change, before you get into rewards or punishments, you have to start with discovery. When it comes to someone changing in any way, we need to know if they have self-awareness. We can make a guess by how well actions align with stated intentions. If we're in a discussion, we can and should ask questions to discover whether the behavioral changes they make are prompted from their self or often suggestions of others? But, we need to have a clear and direct conversation about blind spots.
Reading this, I feel like as a playerbase our perspective is lacking and we all have blind spots. So, if you are trying to prompt change with someone who doesn't have a lot of self-awareness, you can just measure behaviors. If you measure it, you manage it.
This place is first and foremost a game. It seemed like a lot of people were interested in logging on together to play with the event. We had 38 at max online together. If we can get 38 online for four hours, then 10 people could login once a week, as allies or enemies, and word would get around that there might be something going. When it comes to PK, though, there are groups that (it feels like) hate playing against each other. But, within all camps of people who hate playing with / against each other is the reality that the more people who are involved in a PK session, the more buffers there are so that you aren't directly interacting with someone.
I'd like to see PK regularly. One thing that can be a problem is how reactive typing is versus how permanent a lot of us take logs for. When people yell and curse at each other or attack each other on narrates, these are quick typing hands, and there is frequently a mixture between joking, nudging, outright toxicity, and assholery. I can imagine that if you don't feel confident in PK already and this is the atmosphere you experience, you would want to not play the game for things that are competitive. I often do a poor job of moderating in-game and in Discord because it is hard to read the intentions along with the comments. And sometimes I agree with the general complaints, but do not think they are made in a way that generates a conversation.
As a player, I have been punished for unjustly abusing warrant systems to warrant someone because I died and immediately went into a tantrum. I issued the warrant, had just finished packing in real life for a trip, and instead of ever engaging the person directly to get to the moment where I would realize that I was throwing a fit or emotionally hooked and back down, I logged off and made someone else deal with it. This wasted other Staff members time, left shitty air in the game, and allowed for multiple factions to stew on the event. I then whined to a clanmate who had killed me for a while about something sanctimonious. This happens in WoTMUD all the time. It doesn't feel like we do a good job addressing it, though. I should have apologized to the player after my tantrum and then pardoned him. It would have required little Staff interaction—maybe a note on the event, but no managing conversations that could have been a dialogue. I proactively separate my intentions and actions as Staff from those of my mortal experience. But, I bring this up as an example of how players, simply by communicating with each other about intentions, outcomes, and a potential future, can impact the state of the game far more than Staff ever can or will.
So if you measure it you manage it. Can you manage the dislike you have for other people? Can you manage your access to your tongue? (If you can't, alias nar argle, continuing until you have to type the full word). Manage it. Figure out how to manage it.
A lot of you logged on for the event. We enjoy seeing that many people on and playing. I know that as a mortal, I enjoy PK. We can try bribery and rewards. Every week, there is consistently good PK. I will make time to do a mob raid that is rewarding, either through leading events, equipment, or opportunities for purchases, perhaps. If we can have a realistic conversation about behaviors, this game, and you. We have things we planned on loading that are very nice. Is that worth talking about?
What can players manage? One of the things I see causing many issues right now is self-control and then opting out. I choose to opt-out as well, but when you have the same remorts camping the who-list, I know it reduces the likelihood of others staying on. And, not everyone wants to fight the person on repeat. The same can be true for channelers. When a majority of other channelers are on together, it creates balance issues. And when balance issues are addressed by code instead of resolved by self-control, people get nerfed and hate it.
This should be a fun game. But, we come back to the problem that it is very easy to opt out of unfun things. And often times, by things that are unfun, I specifically mean other players or class compositions. It is hard to enjoy playing a rogue or against a rogue when there are multiple rogues. It is hard to enjoy playing against or with a channeler when there are multiples and no fodder or other characters. It's hard to enjoy playing against a fade when there's multiples. The game needs better compositions to create more fun, and the imbalance can come with large numbers, but before then, we really hamstring ourselves for shared enjoyment. A lack of self-control and a holistic view on what can make this game more fun for all of us destroys the chance that the game will change how you want and leads to things like the facts below.
If the game state had a bunch more loads of really great items at 100% that were doable, even if absurdly difficult, we would have groups of 10-20 online doing them every repop to the devaluation of the item. And maybe there is a deep desire for PVE and a joy to be had in it. But, the way that PVE gets balanced is through mobol and often times when something becomes too difficult because of adjustments based on the groups that farm it, it becomes close to impossible for anybody else to do something on a whim. 7 channelers killed a 1418 HP mob last night in four rounds. There is nothing that can compete with that. 4 rounds is not enough time for me to add more activity into the activity. It is the end of the activity for everyone.
Take TAR. The groups that are currently hitting it are built out of the easiest compositions to do it. 3-5 channelers that can nuke the mobs. If we want to balance it against that then those groups will be nerfed. Will they get more people to do it? Will they stop doing it altogether because it is too hard? Will they change their tactic to try something new? I don't know. But I do know that TAR is very easy if you have 3-5 channelers. And that this happens after reboot when the game is pretty dead. Why would we raise the likelihood of something that is guaranteed to get killed off (TAR smob) because of the group composition, which was initially put in at a high % with the hope that there was an element of chance and loss possible? I'm sure there are anecdotes of failures. I guarantee there are more successes. If things are permanently farmed, do we raise the difficulty, lower the loads, or change the likelihood of it happening? What knob do you touch that leads takes the most good aspects of something?
The game is best when people are logging on, logging off, and playing, and have an opportunity to find rewards for their time (though limited), but that is weighed against people who will farm every upped load made on repop, often on characters that are unclanned, with no ties to the game, and no consequences. Last night, while giving a clue to a smob with a rare, a player left the group actively hunting the trollocs in a town center, alted to a character like this. Ported, killed the smob, and perhaps shared the rare? I don't know the outcome of it.
And for roleplay? A Hall event is scheduled by Staff to facilitate some type of resolution and fun. Nothing is really covered and it ends with the Hall trying to give itself more QPs for doing things. How do you think that feels to Staff? You can get rewarded, and we love rewarding material posted that is really cared for and cool. Attempts toward a broader perspective. Someone noted that other pieces of roleplay feel inorganic. They feel and look unfun. Forced. We don't want this--but do you feel it? Do you notice it when you're in one of those sessions? What can you manage about that?
With staff members' increased busyness and players' limited engagement, you're not going to see momentum toward what you want unless you motivate and collaborate with Staff in a way that excites us about the possibilities that players are bringing to the table. If that is the case, I return to the first post.
Our Request: We ask for your cooperation in maintaining the integrity of our roleplaying environment. If you notice rule-breaking or subpar roleplay, kindly address it. If someone is breaking the rules or expectations of their roleplay (e.g. continuous coordination between White Tower and Child of the Light) then roleplay through that experience to create player-driven accountability because it will limit the amount of overreach that you will feel from Staff.
Invest time in being a part of the daily story that our world tells. Engage in PK, same side if you want to, roleplay with people as an antagonist. If roleplaying is done in a room that is invite-only, then where do you anticipate interacting with those who stand opposed to you? Forced PK and forced RP should be expectations. This is also a place where you can increase accountability and gain credit for more spot RP. How often are you online and your decision is to simply ignore someone instead of challenging them?
It can be frustrating, given the new RP requirements and the year of time to achieve these acquirements that we see some players coercing others to give awards explicitly or implicitly through descriptions. We recognize that there is a wide variety of feelings about these requirements that limit the number of pve-qps gained, but the year window seemed like it would be a good opportunity to encourage roleplay. Journey before destination as it were.
Finally, it takes a lot of effort to build the story, the game activities related to them, and to do the dungeon mastering aspect of what you would like from the Staff. We’re not asking for sympathy because this is a choice, but we also don’t want to be the only pieces of accountability. When this is the case, you feel that our approach is heavy-handed. Oftentimes, we default to punishments that we hope will curb the behavior entirely. What can players do to create accountability between themselves, and what can we as Staff do to support it?
We do not want to drive the action or lead the narrative (as immortals or mortals). We also do not want to create a system where players are directly going to the Staff for permission to do something, that they then can use as a justification to do their thing. So, when we move to transition pieces of the storyline, and we see the number of violations of the banishment that are present in trophies, and we hear things related to ultimatums given by mobs (Siuan / First of Mayene), then it is a hit against the agency that we desire to give to players and leads to fatigue in general about providing content.
In that first post there are questions. We are well aware that we could do more. We are specifically asking what you could do. I have put a lot of questions into this post. You can read them as rhetorical. I would be interested in literal responses. We are not looking for a list of suggestions from players on what we can do. We know we can work harder and try more; we can commit more effort, time, and emotions to this game. We know this.
We feel like either players play ball, or we just stop doing these things. Needing a plan for every scenario is way too time-consuming on our end. Having individuals driving momentum also destroys the point. We are looking for collaboration. From players to players, we do not follow the roleplay of single individuals that create conflict (because it leads to other people, with longer memories? Histories? to come back and "problem-solve" instead of play proactively). How can you involve people?
If you are reward-based and you play the gameoriented toward rewards then the highest return you can get guaranteed (e.g. QPs, RP opportunities, EQ, potions, gold) is PK. It is also the least predictable. It is unpredictable when no one finds a reason to log on and run around. If you want regular rewards, I suggest you take yourself through a discovery series of questions to figure out what you don't like about PK and whether or not you're willing to change that. A PK-centric MUD without PKers will have low rewards for PVE. Everything is relative to the gameplay that helps return standards and integrity to the game. We do not want a conversation about Player Accountability to end with the conclusion that we should raise rewards for people who report bugs.
You should report bugs because if you don't it devalues the thing and harms the integrity of the game. Draz is periodically punished related to breaking rules and the last time, people did step up to take his place and lead excursions. The problem is that rather than emulate all the great things that Draz brings to the game to promote activity, players actively tie themselves up against Staff and volley defenses or arguments on why Draz should be freed. Ignoring the Draz aspect, if you want someone to empower you as a player, perhaps start with yourself.
I think Isabel's point is prevalent currently. This is direct and may come across as critical, but the lack of self-control and the grind on a 24/7 game impact the potential loads, opportunities, and, in general, willingness of people to play this game. Some people hate each other. Some grudges are just sitting there waiting to explode. We don't want to play against each other or together. We're willing if there is a buffer between us and that person.
So what can you do to be the buffer? What can you do to create conversations instead of reinforcing divides? How can we get the people who like aspects of this game to play together and collectively make the game more enjoyable?
It is repeated and cycled, but if you want PK on one side and others do too, why not look on another side? I understand that we want to play with friends because we don't have a buffer, and we don't want to play with people for *insert reason here*. I understand some friend groups are just more aggressive than others and can really imbalance PK. That needs self-control too. I know there are people that I absolutely hate killing or dying to. I'm sure everyone has this. How can we manage our reaction?
The core people who do play or who are playing though, need to be the ones who set a standard. And if you want to have more reasons to play this game, I would focus on finding the one reason to run around the world and try that 15 minutes a day. If we all overlapped those 15 minutes, what are the possibilities? If we overlap and do things together, what is the likelihood that itself leads to more things to do?
I enjoy people having fun. I like to facilitate that. And I like to be a part of it too. What I find fun is PK. I can reward us as a community if we have more and better PK together. PK offers opportunities to challenge or reinforce stereotypes as well through roleplay. That is fascinating and cool to watch and exciting to be able to reward. I don't think I'm alone, though, in expressing how frustrating it can be to not be heard or feel heard. I can imagine reading that if you've felt like immortals don't listen to you, and thinking, yeah, get some self-awareness yourself. That is fair and I can often run the risk of soapboxing.
Largely, though, I feel that Staff has proactively tried to be open, intentional, and improve our strategies for better results. We can always improve and when we do, we try to make it public. But, I can't do much more than be intentional about my behaviors and changes, measure the outcomes and try to improve marginally on things that facilitate competition. I can reward PK with events as my time allows. But, I want people to have fun playing this game and enjoy the best part of this game.
If you aren't great at PK, talk to people. How do you learn? What do you try to improve on? How do you get feedback? If you're botted up with triggers, why? What aspects of this do you like best? Are you just PKing for kills? Is your only intention to win? Does this force you to be pick and choose who you are willing to fight against? If you like helping other people grow, how can you help them? What do they need to know about PKing with you or against you? How can you share your mindset about PK to talk through some of the reasons people don't want to play with you? How about against you? Do you hold triggers against people? Should it matter? Is there really a right way to play the game outside of playing it?
I don't think this is an unreasonable post. Feel free to challenge me where you think is applicable. If we can get 38 people online for around 4 hours then we can surely play together and be more intentional about the fun aspects of the game and the game itself.
Reading this, I feel like as a playerbase our perspective is lacking and we all have blind spots. So, if you are trying to prompt change with someone who doesn't have a lot of self-awareness, you can just measure behaviors. If you measure it, you manage it.
This place is first and foremost a game. It seemed like a lot of people were interested in logging on together to play with the event. We had 38 at max online together. If we can get 38 online for four hours, then 10 people could login once a week, as allies or enemies, and word would get around that there might be something going. When it comes to PK, though, there are groups that (it feels like) hate playing against each other. But, within all camps of people who hate playing with / against each other is the reality that the more people who are involved in a PK session, the more buffers there are so that you aren't directly interacting with someone.
I'd like to see PK regularly. One thing that can be a problem is how reactive typing is versus how permanent a lot of us take logs for. When people yell and curse at each other or attack each other on narrates, these are quick typing hands, and there is frequently a mixture between joking, nudging, outright toxicity, and assholery. I can imagine that if you don't feel confident in PK already and this is the atmosphere you experience, you would want to not play the game for things that are competitive. I often do a poor job of moderating in-game and in Discord because it is hard to read the intentions along with the comments. And sometimes I agree with the general complaints, but do not think they are made in a way that generates a conversation.
As a player, I have been punished for unjustly abusing warrant systems to warrant someone because I died and immediately went into a tantrum. I issued the warrant, had just finished packing in real life for a trip, and instead of ever engaging the person directly to get to the moment where I would realize that I was throwing a fit or emotionally hooked and back down, I logged off and made someone else deal with it. This wasted other Staff members time, left shitty air in the game, and allowed for multiple factions to stew on the event. I then whined to a clanmate who had killed me for a while about something sanctimonious. This happens in WoTMUD all the time. It doesn't feel like we do a good job addressing it, though. I should have apologized to the player after my tantrum and then pardoned him. It would have required little Staff interaction—maybe a note on the event, but no managing conversations that could have been a dialogue. I proactively separate my intentions and actions as Staff from those of my mortal experience. But, I bring this up as an example of how players, simply by communicating with each other about intentions, outcomes, and a potential future, can impact the state of the game far more than Staff ever can or will.
So if you measure it you manage it. Can you manage the dislike you have for other people? Can you manage your access to your tongue? (If you can't, alias nar argle, continuing until you have to type the full word). Manage it. Figure out how to manage it.
A lot of you logged on for the event. We enjoy seeing that many people on and playing. I know that as a mortal, I enjoy PK. We can try bribery and rewards. Every week, there is consistently good PK. I will make time to do a mob raid that is rewarding, either through leading events, equipment, or opportunities for purchases, perhaps. If we can have a realistic conversation about behaviors, this game, and you. We have things we planned on loading that are very nice. Is that worth talking about?
What can players manage? One of the things I see causing many issues right now is self-control and then opting out. I choose to opt-out as well, but when you have the same remorts camping the who-list, I know it reduces the likelihood of others staying on. And, not everyone wants to fight the person on repeat. The same can be true for channelers. When a majority of other channelers are on together, it creates balance issues. And when balance issues are addressed by code instead of resolved by self-control, people get nerfed and hate it.
This should be a fun game. But, we come back to the problem that it is very easy to opt out of unfun things. And often times, by things that are unfun, I specifically mean other players or class compositions. It is hard to enjoy playing a rogue or against a rogue when there are multiple rogues. It is hard to enjoy playing against or with a channeler when there are multiples and no fodder or other characters. It's hard to enjoy playing against a fade when there's multiples. The game needs better compositions to create more fun, and the imbalance can come with large numbers, but before then, we really hamstring ourselves for shared enjoyment. A lack of self-control and a holistic view on what can make this game more fun for all of us destroys the chance that the game will change how you want and leads to things like the facts below.
If the game state had a bunch more loads of really great items at 100% that were doable, even if absurdly difficult, we would have groups of 10-20 online doing them every repop to the devaluation of the item. And maybe there is a deep desire for PVE and a joy to be had in it. But, the way that PVE gets balanced is through mobol and often times when something becomes too difficult because of adjustments based on the groups that farm it, it becomes close to impossible for anybody else to do something on a whim. 7 channelers killed a 1418 HP mob last night in four rounds. There is nothing that can compete with that. 4 rounds is not enough time for me to add more activity into the activity. It is the end of the activity for everyone.
Take TAR. The groups that are currently hitting it are built out of the easiest compositions to do it. 3-5 channelers that can nuke the mobs. If we want to balance it against that then those groups will be nerfed. Will they get more people to do it? Will they stop doing it altogether because it is too hard? Will they change their tactic to try something new? I don't know. But I do know that TAR is very easy if you have 3-5 channelers. And that this happens after reboot when the game is pretty dead. Why would we raise the likelihood of something that is guaranteed to get killed off (TAR smob) because of the group composition, which was initially put in at a high % with the hope that there was an element of chance and loss possible? I'm sure there are anecdotes of failures. I guarantee there are more successes. If things are permanently farmed, do we raise the difficulty, lower the loads, or change the likelihood of it happening? What knob do you touch that leads takes the most good aspects of something?
The game is best when people are logging on, logging off, and playing, and have an opportunity to find rewards for their time (though limited), but that is weighed against people who will farm every upped load made on repop, often on characters that are unclanned, with no ties to the game, and no consequences. Last night, while giving a clue to a smob with a rare, a player left the group actively hunting the trollocs in a town center, alted to a character like this. Ported, killed the smob, and perhaps shared the rare? I don't know the outcome of it.
And for roleplay? A Hall event is scheduled by Staff to facilitate some type of resolution and fun. Nothing is really covered and it ends with the Hall trying to give itself more QPs for doing things. How do you think that feels to Staff? You can get rewarded, and we love rewarding material posted that is really cared for and cool. Attempts toward a broader perspective. Someone noted that other pieces of roleplay feel inorganic. They feel and look unfun. Forced. We don't want this--but do you feel it? Do you notice it when you're in one of those sessions? What can you manage about that?
With staff members' increased busyness and players' limited engagement, you're not going to see momentum toward what you want unless you motivate and collaborate with Staff in a way that excites us about the possibilities that players are bringing to the table. If that is the case, I return to the first post.
Our Request: We ask for your cooperation in maintaining the integrity of our roleplaying environment. If you notice rule-breaking or subpar roleplay, kindly address it. If someone is breaking the rules or expectations of their roleplay (e.g. continuous coordination between White Tower and Child of the Light) then roleplay through that experience to create player-driven accountability because it will limit the amount of overreach that you will feel from Staff.
Invest time in being a part of the daily story that our world tells. Engage in PK, same side if you want to, roleplay with people as an antagonist. If roleplaying is done in a room that is invite-only, then where do you anticipate interacting with those who stand opposed to you? Forced PK and forced RP should be expectations. This is also a place where you can increase accountability and gain credit for more spot RP. How often are you online and your decision is to simply ignore someone instead of challenging them?
It can be frustrating, given the new RP requirements and the year of time to achieve these acquirements that we see some players coercing others to give awards explicitly or implicitly through descriptions. We recognize that there is a wide variety of feelings about these requirements that limit the number of pve-qps gained, but the year window seemed like it would be a good opportunity to encourage roleplay. Journey before destination as it were.
Finally, it takes a lot of effort to build the story, the game activities related to them, and to do the dungeon mastering aspect of what you would like from the Staff. We’re not asking for sympathy because this is a choice, but we also don’t want to be the only pieces of accountability. When this is the case, you feel that our approach is heavy-handed. Oftentimes, we default to punishments that we hope will curb the behavior entirely. What can players do to create accountability between themselves, and what can we as Staff do to support it?
We do not want to drive the action or lead the narrative (as immortals or mortals). We also do not want to create a system where players are directly going to the Staff for permission to do something, that they then can use as a justification to do their thing. So, when we move to transition pieces of the storyline, and we see the number of violations of the banishment that are present in trophies, and we hear things related to ultimatums given by mobs (Siuan / First of Mayene), then it is a hit against the agency that we desire to give to players and leads to fatigue in general about providing content.
In that first post there are questions. We are well aware that we could do more. We are specifically asking what you could do. I have put a lot of questions into this post. You can read them as rhetorical. I would be interested in literal responses. We are not looking for a list of suggestions from players on what we can do. We know we can work harder and try more; we can commit more effort, time, and emotions to this game. We know this.
We feel like either players play ball, or we just stop doing these things. Needing a plan for every scenario is way too time-consuming on our end. Having individuals driving momentum also destroys the point. We are looking for collaboration. From players to players, we do not follow the roleplay of single individuals that create conflict (because it leads to other people, with longer memories? Histories? to come back and "problem-solve" instead of play proactively). How can you involve people?
If you are reward-based and you play the gameoriented toward rewards then the highest return you can get guaranteed (e.g. QPs, RP opportunities, EQ, potions, gold) is PK. It is also the least predictable. It is unpredictable when no one finds a reason to log on and run around. If you want regular rewards, I suggest you take yourself through a discovery series of questions to figure out what you don't like about PK and whether or not you're willing to change that. A PK-centric MUD without PKers will have low rewards for PVE. Everything is relative to the gameplay that helps return standards and integrity to the game. We do not want a conversation about Player Accountability to end with the conclusion that we should raise rewards for people who report bugs.
You should report bugs because if you don't it devalues the thing and harms the integrity of the game. Draz is periodically punished related to breaking rules and the last time, people did step up to take his place and lead excursions. The problem is that rather than emulate all the great things that Draz brings to the game to promote activity, players actively tie themselves up against Staff and volley defenses or arguments on why Draz should be freed. Ignoring the Draz aspect, if you want someone to empower you as a player, perhaps start with yourself.
I think Isabel's point is prevalent currently. This is direct and may come across as critical, but the lack of self-control and the grind on a 24/7 game impact the potential loads, opportunities, and, in general, willingness of people to play this game. Some people hate each other. Some grudges are just sitting there waiting to explode. We don't want to play against each other or together. We're willing if there is a buffer between us and that person.
So what can you do to be the buffer? What can you do to create conversations instead of reinforcing divides? How can we get the people who like aspects of this game to play together and collectively make the game more enjoyable?
It is repeated and cycled, but if you want PK on one side and others do too, why not look on another side? I understand that we want to play with friends because we don't have a buffer, and we don't want to play with people for *insert reason here*. I understand some friend groups are just more aggressive than others and can really imbalance PK. That needs self-control too. I know there are people that I absolutely hate killing or dying to. I'm sure everyone has this. How can we manage our reaction?
The core people who do play or who are playing though, need to be the ones who set a standard. And if you want to have more reasons to play this game, I would focus on finding the one reason to run around the world and try that 15 minutes a day. If we all overlapped those 15 minutes, what are the possibilities? If we overlap and do things together, what is the likelihood that itself leads to more things to do?
I enjoy people having fun. I like to facilitate that. And I like to be a part of it too. What I find fun is PK. I can reward us as a community if we have more and better PK together. PK offers opportunities to challenge or reinforce stereotypes as well through roleplay. That is fascinating and cool to watch and exciting to be able to reward. I don't think I'm alone, though, in expressing how frustrating it can be to not be heard or feel heard. I can imagine reading that if you've felt like immortals don't listen to you, and thinking, yeah, get some self-awareness yourself. That is fair and I can often run the risk of soapboxing.
Largely, though, I feel that Staff has proactively tried to be open, intentional, and improve our strategies for better results. We can always improve and when we do, we try to make it public. But, I can't do much more than be intentional about my behaviors and changes, measure the outcomes and try to improve marginally on things that facilitate competition. I can reward PK with events as my time allows. But, I want people to have fun playing this game and enjoy the best part of this game.
If you aren't great at PK, talk to people. How do you learn? What do you try to improve on? How do you get feedback? If you're botted up with triggers, why? What aspects of this do you like best? Are you just PKing for kills? Is your only intention to win? Does this force you to be pick and choose who you are willing to fight against? If you like helping other people grow, how can you help them? What do they need to know about PKing with you or against you? How can you share your mindset about PK to talk through some of the reasons people don't want to play with you? How about against you? Do you hold triggers against people? Should it matter? Is there really a right way to play the game outside of playing it?
I don't think this is an unreasonable post. Feel free to challenge me where you think is applicable. If we can get 38 people online for around 4 hours then we can surely play together and be more intentional about the fun aspects of the game and the game itself.