The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

[isabel]

I'm not really looking to get into a drawn out debate. But all of your examples are like in seasons 4+? And are relatively minor compared to what has already happened in the first six episodes in the first season of WoT.

I mean the first few seasons of GoT had a ton of dialogue that was like literally lifted from the books.

But I'm comfortable with you not agreeing with me

I actually agree with both of you on this. There are some big changes but also a lot of what I looked forward to watching was there. Many of the big scenes of the books were the big scenes of the show. Since I'm an Arya fan - her going to braavos and what it meant for example.

In contrast so far the big scenes of wheel of time have not been the big scenes of the books - logains gentling, stepinn funeral, the reveal of that darkfriend in epsiode 2, Perrin killing his wife, honestly these are not things I think of. Mat fighting the warders, Thom bonding with mat/rand, lan teaching rand how to hold a sword, emonds field being a looovely wholesome place etc..none of this is really there in the show.

Also agree with halfhand that while having a hook is fine, rand so far has not got enough screentime to make this look anything but gimmicky.

It's more like a wheel of time fanfic than anything, though ultimately that's what all adaptations are.

[isabel]

From reddit, I loled

Timpa87
29m
split in 5 so would we be talking about summoning the Dragon like Captain Planet and the 5 planeteers?


u/TheAirsickLowlander avatar
TheAirsickLowlander
24m
Hell, just give them all access to one element of the one power, then it works exactly like you say.

Perrin - "Earth" Rand - "Fire" Egwene - "Air" Nyneave- "Water" Mat - "Spirit"

"By your powers combined, I am Dragon Reborn!"

[Ashlee]

Mat fighting the warders, Thom bonding with mat/rand, lan teaching rand how to hold a sword, emonds field being a looovely wholesome place etc..none of this is really there in the show.

To be a contrarian, most of your examples are things that happen much further into the series: Mat and fighting Gawyn and Galad is in book 3, Lan teaching Rand how to fight is largely offscreen between books 1 and 2 (though I will concede they have not played up the heron mark at all), and I got a real sense of Emond's Field being a lovely place in episode 1 (though that is more subjective). I'll give you the bonding with Mat, Rand, and Thom not happening, but -- again subjectively -- that was the least important part of Book 1 for me, so it doesn't rub me the wrong way.

While season 1 is adapting parts of books 1-3, it is not condensing all three books into a single season. I love the show. There are certainly things I wish did not happen or were adapted differently, but I think it is far from mediocre fan fiction. But to each their own. Plenty of people still hate Lord of the Rings for not being faithful to to books, and conveniently forget that GOT wasn't massively popular until the end of season 2.

Also, for all of you saying the GOT didn't change between the books and the TV show: https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/D ... s_Season_1 . Some are small, some a pretty large. It is just not accurate to say the GOT adaption was massively faithful to the books. It wasn't.

[Ashlee]

As for my actual thoughts: By far this was my favorite episode. Bring expressly the relationship of Moraine and Siuane to the forefront (where anyone half paying attention could see it in the books) was marvelous. Love the cold open. Really liked playing up the Tower politics. I wonder if Moraine's comment about the man in Northharbor was Liandran meeting with Padan Fain (which could explain how she knew his name) and setting up that she is DF. The performances were fantastic.

The two things I did not like:


BOOK SPOLIERS:
[*]The Waygate should not be openable by channeling. That is a lore point that has big ramifications down the road with Loial's quest, how Slayer is able to move trollocs and fades around at will, etc. .
[*]Mat being a coward and not going through the Waygate with the rest of the EF5. I think this was because Barney Harris didn't return to filming after COVID hit (which was before episode 7 & 8), so this might have been attempt to explain why Mat was not present in ep 7 & 8. If that is true, it is a fair way to try to address the situation.

[halfhand]

Also a reminder that the animated Origin Stories are now up as Bonus Material and not part of Xray anymore. Includes

The Breaking of the World
Saidin, Saidar, Stone
The Fall of Manetheren
The White Tower


Also Episode 7+ spoilers

"The ending of episode 6 gets to the heart of the Barney Harris (Mat) story. They filmed eps 1-6 before the pandemic arrived. Then had to wait a long time to finish eps 7-8. BH never returned to filming. That’s why he doesn’t go through the waygate with them." - Dragonmount.com twitter

[isabel]

Hrrm it's been a while since I read the books but in my memory mat gets healed in the tower and wanders out when he's supposed to be resting and has that fight. Since moiraine insta healed him -ish I assumed the fight would be next.

Also if moiraine knows about padan fain liandrin connection then wouldnt she be really really wary of liandrin as a df? I'm assuming no one is on to liandrin because she literally had two ajah people support her in public. On that note actually why does siuan think it's okay for logain to have killed them all? Like how were they supposed to bring him back if he kills them :p

@Aira - yeah broadly don't disagree except I don't think EF was wholesome here but as you say that is subjective. I don't at all think fanfic is mediocre! I think it's a brilliant contemporary literary form, denigrated by the elites of today just as Shakespeare was in his time. Fanfic is fundamentally a creative interpretation that permits itself to bend and twist anything, except main character consistency (broadly!). Wheel of time the way it is going really comes across as a story set in the wheel of time world (eg if it had kept focus on logain and liandrin) - not saying that as a bad thing, just an observation.

[Ashlee]

Also if moiraine knows about padan fain liandrin connection then wouldnt she be really really wary of liandrin as a df? I'm assuming no one is on to liandrin because she literally had two ajah people support her in public.

Oh, I don't think Moraine knows it's Fain. I am just guessing that it is Fain. I think Moraine was using it as a barb to "out" Liandran as having a male lover to the other Reds, but in actuality she is meeting with Fain. Liandran's reaction seems a touch too much real fear, which is why I think Liandran thought for a moment her DFness was outed.

[isabel]

Also if moiraine knows about padan fain liandrin connection then wouldnt she be really really wary of liandrin as a df? I'm assuming no one is on to liandrin because she literally had two ajah people support her in public.

Oh, I don't think Moraine knows it's Fain. I am just guessing that it is Fain. I think Moraine was using it as a barb to "out" Liandran as having a male lover to the other Reds, but in actuality she is meeting with Fain. Liandran's reaction seems a touch too much real fear, which is why I think Liandran thought for a moment her DFness was outed.

Oooh okay makes sense. From a non-book place to me it looked a bit like liandrin is hiding some.nephew or someone who is a male channeler and that would be terrible (but also humanises liandrin a bit).

Btw on the subject of keeping tabs on each other, it seems kind of bleh that moiraine and lan were tracked down so easily - or even who is tracking what, like shouldn't moiraine have been harder to locate given she is used to working secretly etc. Same with Lan he literally escorted her to whatever place, checking for spies etc but apparently liandrin was able to find out? This is the second time lan has been out-tracked.

[Aira]

@Aira - yeah broadly don't disagree except I don't think EF was wholesome here but as you say that is subjective. I don't at all think fanfic is mediocre! I think it's a brilliant contemporary literary form, denigrated by the elites of today just as Shakespeare was in his time. Fanfic is fundamentally a creative interpretation that permits itself to bend and twist anything, except main character consistency (broadly!). Wheel of time the way it is going really comes across as a story set in the wheel of time world (eg if it had kept focus on logain and liandrin) - not saying that as a bad thing, just an observation.

That was Ashlee who said that, not me.

Bookwise, after Falme Mat is healed enough to travel to Tar Valon, where he is healed properly. It takes a massive amount of the One Power, including Vora's sa'angreal. So the staff fight is book 3, not book 1. For one, we also need to have Galad and Gawyn in the Tower.

[asharek]

What a fun show! Never ceases to surprise with their hijinks. My thoughts..

Either Basel Gill has a cousin that with the same name in TV or poor guy got QB renamed and moved to TV when he wasn't looking. Any of you that first spawned in Caemlyn and spent their newbie days in Andor has to feel that's effed up doing to that innkeeper.

Did Moraine lie to Egwene when she asked her if Mat and Rand were also in TV?

Apparently, I been reading a different Robert Jordan as people seem to be loving what's being depicted on screen and how the story is being "adapted" or rewritten.. but my biggest contention with the show, especially this episode.. who the heck designed the sets, clothing and architecture? Their portrayal is like a poorman's TV that was ripped off from SL.. the city doesn't give off the vibe of a central hub much less buildings constructed by Ogiers, it feels small. White tower sucks interior and exterior.. there's no sense of awe in the designs or close to it rather it looks like a phallic figure and stumpy.. was smart to at least place it on a hill to make it seem taller.

The sedai outfits.. are you serious? it looks cheap and lacking in elegance. Isn't this the hall of the sitters and aren't they convening for a formal occasion, so where are the shawls? And whoever designed Siuan's outfit and stole should just use their pencil one more time to write a contract that says they won't design anymore.. what is she wearing? It makes her look ridiculous.. what are those things on her shoulders? Being the head of TV, I'm sure she can afford to hire someone to replace those washed out triangle things.. whoever did her outfits musta hated this character.

Seriously though, if we were to ignore our book knowledge and viewed it on the lens of just the tv show standing on its own if Rand went home now no one would care. Think about that.

n.b. so why not try to heal Mat properly now since he's in TV?