Lightside Needs Help

[Thrasymachus]

Everybody's going to get a top end item eventually for their weapon class. And when you get it, you notice the difference between that and the mid tier or low end weapons of that same class. It doesn't matter how green you are, you'll eventually get it, and you'll notice it, and you'll like it. And then when you inevitably lose it, it really does suck. If you think about it from some newbies perspective who's managed to get their hands on a good weapon, who's been ripped, not only have they lost xp, which equates to time spent getting it back, they've lost their ob, pb and abs, and it will be a good long time before they get back what they've lost, if they can even realistically expect to. It's easy to say that new players shouldn't want or expect to get back into top end weapons. But they will eventually get one, and from that point on they will want it, and when they don't have a realistic way of getting back to it with reasonable amounts of time and effort, they will get frustrated.

There's plenty of things that oldbies and imms can point to, to show that re-equipping and re-exping back up to where you were before you ripped shouldn't be that big of a deal. But that doesn't really show that they're putting themselves in the perspective of a genuinely new, or an old, but just casual player. When you put up lists of those mini-smobs, when you start blaming the players and tell them to suck it up, or put themselves out there more, you're basically just telling them that they suck, or that they're not committed enough to the game to deserve having fun with it. That's not going to help anybody play more, that's not going to encourage a casual player, who can only really afford to be casual, to keep logging in the once or twice a week or month that they can manage, that's not going to get people who've already quit in frustration or because they don't have the time to bother with it anymore to keep peeking their noses in from time to time. And it doesn't really help the newbie either, except to stress to them how much the game demands of you if you're going to have any kind of fun with it.

[Thore]

I mean, this game hasn't ever been nor is it now really a casual game. Things like permadeath and losing eq and the fact that its a MUD with its mud-style PvP and the Wheel of Time world are what make it unique. Lots and lots of newbies got past this in the past and we had the numbers to prove it; we were all newbies at one point, and the game was more brutal to newbies back then than it is now (when's the last time you were same-sided?), so it can't just be that. We all have opinions on how things could be better or why they're not great now. I personally think it's going to take some kind of major change to boost the mud's success. Maybe Wheel of Time isn't as popular as it once was, maybe an incoming TV show will revitalize that, who knows, things come and they go.

[Elysia]

It's easy to say that new players shouldn't want or expect to get back into top end weapons.

I'm talking about newbies thinking they absolutely need the silver etched because they feel the dull black is worthless. The 1pb and 1 lbs isn't going to make or break their exping. Also, I've seen newbies ask about things like dragon belts because they think they need the best of the best in order to play, which is ludicrous. I've seen human newbie statters run around in full abs and an e-axe they can't even afford to rent and then feel devastated when they are killed.

Being generous and helpful towards newbies is one thing, spoiling people so they feel only the top end stuff is playable from the moment they start playing the game is entirely different. It sets the stage for people only wanting to leave the city in a full set, which doesn't help the game in any way, shape or form.

[Paigey]

I exped that guy the other day - he asked me & globals where he could get a cuendillar belt and etched shield. I told him it wouldn't change a thing, but I think my words fell on deaf ears. Someone had already given him full dodge + midtier trinkets and a dull. I met another newbie who a friend had gifted full dodge + gold chains+ some other stuff. I try to keep my rookies in lithe equivalents + things that Elysia posted about earlier. Hikiko generously intercepted a newbie I have been helping and gave them an I&G when I meant for them to be 2 handed staves. Shame on you Hikiko! Your misdeeds have been reported at a tree for punishment.

[Thrasymachus]

It's easy to say that new players shouldn't want or expect to get back into top end weapons.

I'm talking about newbies thinking they absolutely need the silver etched because they feel the dull black is worthless. The 1pb and 1 lbs isn't going to make or break their exping. Also, I've seen newbies ask about things like dragon belts because they think they need the best of the best in order to play, which is ludicrous. I've seen human newbie statters run around in full abs and an e-axe they can't even afford to rent and then feel devastated when they are killed.

Being generous and helpful towards newbies is one thing, spoiling people so they feel only the top end stuff is playable from the moment they start playing the game is entirely different. It sets the stage for people only wanting to leave the city in a full set, which doesn't help the game in any way, shape or form.

Establishing a new normal whereby highish tier gear is more easily obtainable and more affordably rentable by anybody more or less solo isn't spoiling newbies. That's just setting a new normal and treats everybody the same. Spoiling them involves leading them around to XP and smobs and pk and setting them up in a kit or with scalps they couldn't get for themselves. Because then when they inevitably lose it, they won't be able to get it back. If you really want to help a new or casually returning player, make them lead on XP and smob and PK runs, or PK with them. Tell them where to go and give them hints, and help them cover for their inevitable mistakes, and be patient with them. But don't do it for them. What are they going to learn if they're always spammed everywhere faster than they can make out? I still remember my very first character I got past stats, back when it was still lvl 5 to stat, and I got led the whole way up to level 12. Nothing hurt my ability to play the game for the long term more than that experience, even if it was the very same experience that hooked me, and made this game into one I think I might always come back to. Don't mistake the fact that getting back on one's feet into a set that's roughly equivalent to the one that's lost can be tough for a newbie or casual player, with a desire to have eq and xp handed to them. It just needs to be a lot more clear, and maybe a bit easier, for them to figure out how to do that on their own.

Knowledge of the game is what new players and casual players need, not help getting levels or help getting gear. And I disagree, Thore, this game can be perfectly amenable to more casual play, if you know what to do and where to go to make up for the big hit that a rip can cause. That list of minismobs Elysia posted is just the tip of the iceberg really, to the sorts of things that players need to know in order to be able to play casually. But if you know what you need to know, then even ragequitting out from the circle with nothing in storage and not coming back for a month can be overcome with roughly a half hour to an hour of play. But the players who need that knowledge of how to make a half-hour of play get you back into the game at a non-sucky level, don't have it. It takes years of experience playing with some commitment or at least hours and hours of reading defunct blogs to even come close. The thing is, that knowledge is something that can be pretty easily stored and conveyed via a good client.

[Relaes]

If I was a seasoned gamer joining this game (which, let's face it, most people are today) I would want to get pretty good gear asap. Honestly, eq has never been easier to get as evident by people GIVING away a full dodge set with c-belt and mid tier rings/neckies/wristies. That would've NEVER happened back in -02 -03 and it's not because people are generous. It's because there's so much good eq around. I mean barrels full.... If you want new players to be fostered into this alleged mindset of "austerity" and FOFY, I think we need some new ideas.

Like just tell new players that eq is easy to get if you get some friends. They will get friends. Information is honestly more important than giveaways. It's like children. Give them a computer when they're six and they'll ask for a horse at 12 and a Tesla at 18. Go tough love and teach them how to handle themselves first and they'll appreciate things more. The first thing I tell my newbies is to do everything quick. Like drink stuff, butcher, move, follow etc etc at jet speed and then we immediately get into aliases and more. They catch on pretty quick. It's not hard. I have no clue how many of them stayed but I'd like to think I'm giving them a better starter package than a full set.

Oh and be realistic about stats. I've seen people go apeshit on globals over something like 17 16 18 like "OMG that's an AWESOME hunter!!!!!!111!!! You can do anything with that char" and then these poor bastards find out the hard way that they're fucked.

[Hiroko]

Hikiko generously intercepted a newbie I have been helping and gave them an I&G when I meant for them to be 2 handed staves. Shame on you Hikiko! Your misdeeds have been reported at a tree for punishment.

Sure....I'll let Hikiko take the blame for that one....

Seriously though, I had checked on her the day before and she was still statting. She never mentioned staves, CCS barrel was weaponless and she was using a flamberge in the eye. She was anxious to see the world so I told her about Clive and how she could stat AND be part of the real world. And yeah, I had a spare I&G. Were they upped with the recent changes? I didn't mean to paint a target on her back!

(I hope she at least got stats by now!)

[Paigey]

Hikiko generously intercepted a newbie I have been helping and gave them an I&G when I meant for them to be 2 handed staves. Shame on you Hikiko! Your misdeeds have been reported at a tree for punishment.

Sure....I'll let Hikiko take the blame for that one....

Seriously though, I had checked on her the day before and she was still statting. She never mentioned staves, CCS barrel was weaponless and she was using a flamberge in the eye. She was anxious to see the world so I told her about Clive and how she could stat AND be part of the real world. And yeah, I had a spare I&G. Were they upped with the recent changes? I didn't mean to paint a target on her back!

(I hope she at least got stats by now!)

Boo. I paid it forward to the wrong person then. She's still has it and her stats are more than decent (they are better then the stats I mastered with imo). Its a perfectly fine weapon and if she dies with it, well, she accidentally practiced level 6 ride so a reset wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

I need to find out more about Clive apparently. That WB mob gave her a feather bladed staff today which I thought was pretty generous.

[Elysia]

Spoiling them involves leading them around to XP and smobs and pk and setting them up in a kit or with scalps they couldn't get for themselves. Because then when they inevitably lose it, they won't be able to get it back.

That's what I'm saying. A level 3 in abs and burnished isn't going to make much of a difference. The e-axe will, compared to a newbie kit weapon, but he's not getting that back easily when he dies. Meanwhile, the gold axe is actually equal in damage and has higher ob than the e-axe. The only difference is the weight, which comes into play when bashing, which doesn't happen at levels 1-3. Unless you want to bash disengage, but then landing less bashes, not more, is key. In fact, as a statter being dismounted, in abs which takes ob, with an e-axe that has less ob than the gold axe, the statter might actually be at a disadvantage. However, they now believe they need an e-axe or better in order to play the game.

[lilith]

Now you've got me curious, Elysia. I am tempted to stat a giveaway warrior and test and compare newbie weapons to midlevel weapons. Lilith thrives on midlvl weapons suitable for ABSers.