A woman wrapped in a silk lined fur coat climbs onto a barrel in the middle of the bazaar. Her calm voice seems a welcome reprieve from the general hue and cry of the market.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
This bazaar seems to attract items of particularly high worth, but as many of you know, there is an auction house in Lugard specializing in items that while often more common, might be of use for those who wish to have them without waiting. It seems like the pricing on certain item is making the Auction House less useful. I would like to solicit your input on what items you would like to see in the auction house, and what prices would be fair to ask for those items. I will list a few common items so if it is easiest to simply add you thoughts on those, feel free, or if you have other items you would like to see for sale please add those.
To add a little interest, two people will be selected from those who give input. One will receive a gold ring, and the other a belt with a buckle of cuendillar.
Trinkets and capes
Red Robe
Mantle
Gold Ring
Jeweled Wristcuff
Kandori Cuff
Obsidian Pendant
Gold Chain
C-belt
Weapons
Red Stone Dagger
Silver-Winged Basillard
Clear Curved Dagger
Pair of Steel Sai
Jade dagger
BT Spear
Gold-Chased warspear
Wickedly Scythed Longsword
Jagged Edged Warsword
Collosal Sword
Pale Steel long sword
E Axe
Dark Grim
Yew Staff
Sungwood staff
Bladed Feathered staff
Binnol
Dark Barbed Flail
Shining Silver Plated sword
Bone Handled Blade
Emerald Foil
Ruby Rapier
Mallet
Bone Club
Other
Would you buy any armor/body equipment? If so what type and would you like it in sets similar to weary merchant? or would you rather just have it in bits?
Seeking input...giving gold ring and cbelt!
Re: Seeking input...giving gold ring and cbelt!
(all ooc)
Based on what is in stock per the forum post, I would buy the following. Might do some shopping tonight actually. Also with some pricing notes (entirely my own perspective and speaking just for myself and how I personally value gold ofc). Mind you I don't spend a ton of time grinding for gold so I'm sure someone who smobs a lot has a very different view.
- Gold Ring - 250 is way too much. It's only 1db and 1mv above an emerald ring which loads on soloable minismobs. I don't see myself paying more than 150 or maaaybe 200 but eh.
- camouflage hood
- finelyspun hood
- cloth sleeves - Don't think I'd ever pay 75 crowns for this considering they load on quite a few fairly easy to solo mobs
- finelyspun sleeves
- riveted sleeves
- finely tunic
- bearskin tunic
- leather jerkin
- finelytailored shirt
- dark gloves
- earthen breeches
- riveted leggings
- cloth breeches
- lissome boots
- silvertooled boots
- welloiled boots
- bonehandled blade
- amberhilted ironsword
- sredit prod
- silver warmallet
- yew staff
- sungwood staff
- bladedfeather staff
The weapons seem priced fairly more or less except for some of the daggers mentioned below. I'd pay 150 for a yew, maybe not an amber hilted though.
- silver etched shield - 150 seems pricey. Dunno about that one.
- dull black shield - 50 seems fine. I'd buy this all day over an etched for 3x the cost considering an etched isn't at all 3x as good. Would sell at this price, too, but would like it at 60 more considering the 10% broker cut.
I'd also in theory be interested in the following that are NOT in stock (per the forum post):
- Red Stone Dagger - 150 seems okay
- Silver-Winged Basilard - Unsure about 150.
- Pair of Steel Sai - Think I'd buy at 150, unsure about selling.
Sai and Basilard have the same issue: these items can be crafted for a total cost of 90 crowns if I smelt my own bar or ~120 if I buy it from a store, assuming if I bought the rings as well (they are negligible in cost though). Although since the smith is random and not likely to give Sai I'd fairly likely spend the 150 to guarantee I get the pair of sai versus the others. The inverse of this is that I don't think 135 crowns (150 - 10%) is sufficient to sell for. The cost of production + the random chance involved makes it worth more (wiki says 1 in 5 chance for sai, which seems more or less accurate to me). I suppose they also load at an okay rate in the Waste - although the wiki suggests that the load was changed...
However between kris or basilard I don't particularly care and so I wouldn't spend 150 for a basilard. If I got sai and wanted basilard I'd gladly save them for another time or sell them. Thus I don't see myself ever not going to Katar for a basilard.
- Red Robe - seems fair at 250. Not sure why this wouldn't be in stock, I might put one in myself.
- Mantle - same as above except I have none stored. Would buy a couple if in stock.
- Jeweled Wristcuff - This item in general is a weird one for me. Similar to gring it's only 1db more than a kcuff so functionally I don't see why it is valued so highly... nonetheless 500 is absurdly low given that the clan treasurer values this item at 3000 crowns (I'm assuming it isn't 3000 coppers?)
- Kandori Cuff - 50 crowns seems like a lowball. I'd certainly buy one for that but I dunno about selling. I feel like I could get at least 50ish from just selling to a jewelry store but if I had a couple to offload and the stores were out of gold yeah I'd put them up for sale.
- Obsidian Pendant - 250 seems too much to me.
- Gold Chain - 150 is fair, would buy or sell. Not sure why sid is 100 crowns more.
- C-belt - 150 is... okay I suppose. Wouldn't feel 100% happy on either the seller or buyer side which I guess means it is fairly priced.
- G&I Ring - 150 is okay. Not totally sure how rare these ones are on smobs/mobs but would like to see it at 100 from a buyer's perspective.
- Onyx Inlaid - this won't ever get put up for sale at the same price as an etched because it is a better and rarer shield.
I don't know if the Kris can be stocked but I'd happily buy/sell it at 50-75 gc. I realize this is less than the cost to craft but the kris is the bogey prize you don't really want from the Katar smith and so it would just be a good way to recoup some crafting costs on the seller side, and a good way to quickly get a dagger that is an alternative to jeweled for someone who is re-equipping. It's kind of a lateral alternative versus jeweled (slightly more damage, less OB) which can be acquired for free by punching some young thieves about, so mostly you'd be paying for not having to spend the time wandering around finding the one that loaded a dagger.
If we had access to the transaction data so we could see how often items are stocked and sold we'd be able to set a fair price a lot more accurately. Right now it's a bit of a guessing game as to where the ideal price point is to be fixed - ideally it would be amazing if the price could decrease/raise within a certain range based on # of that item in stock but I am assuming this is beyond the MOBOL's ability.
My other overall thought about pricing is that presumably we'd want to take a reasonable gold per hour rate that a solo person can achieve and compare that to the drop rates on similar gear gained via smobbing with others and keep things more or less at an even keel - such that the smobbers don't feel like the item that only drops 12.5% of the time is worth nothing in Lugard but such that the solo gold people don't feel like they have to grind for days to get some gear together. I realize there will be outliers here but if we base the system on "well X person can get 1,000 crowns an hour" then it won't work for the other 95% of players. It's just not going to work perfectly in that respect given the fixed prices and that'll have to be okay and isn't really that big of a deal anyway. Person who gets that much gold per hour is probably also adept at getting good gear faster than others.
It seems like there is maybe some price premium on the dodge trinkets which maybe is fair but as it is now is too much.
Finally, as a broader note, the lack of a bank branch in Lugard necessitates carrying large amounts of gold over somewhat dangerous roads which I think reduces the number of transactions that would otherwise be happening. Perhaps this is by design - the idea of rogues lying in wait to snatch up hundreds of crowns is something I find amusing.
On a note unrelated to the Lugard market I would find it intriguing if your guild offered buy/sell orders in some form, IE "I will pay X gold for Y amount of item Z" and facilitated the resulting exchange via holding gold/items in escrow. I've been kicking that idea around in my head for a while but not totally sure how much effort would actually be involved. Potentially lucrative though. For example I say "I'll pay 50 gc for 10 vials" and give you 550 gold (500 for the vials + a broker fee) and then people can come sell vials which I pick up later. Basically exactly how the Lugard brokers work but a little more flexible.
Based on what is in stock per the forum post, I would buy the following. Might do some shopping tonight actually. Also with some pricing notes (entirely my own perspective and speaking just for myself and how I personally value gold ofc). Mind you I don't spend a ton of time grinding for gold so I'm sure someone who smobs a lot has a very different view.
- Gold Ring - 250 is way too much. It's only 1db and 1mv above an emerald ring which loads on soloable minismobs. I don't see myself paying more than 150 or maaaybe 200 but eh.
- camouflage hood
- finelyspun hood
- cloth sleeves - Don't think I'd ever pay 75 crowns for this considering they load on quite a few fairly easy to solo mobs
- finelyspun sleeves
- riveted sleeves
- finely tunic
- bearskin tunic
- leather jerkin
- finelytailored shirt
- dark gloves
- earthen breeches
- riveted leggings
- cloth breeches
- lissome boots
- silvertooled boots
- welloiled boots
Head is fair. Arms is... fair but I'm grumbling a bit - don't get why the price jump. Hands is fair. Feet is fair. Legs jumps up in price 3x over head/hands/feet which I don't really get. I'm not paying 150 crowns for any of the ones I listed except maybe the loose cloth breeches and even then only if I'm flush with gold. Body is a little cheaper than legs but same problem, really. I don't see myself paying more than 100 crowns for a finely tailored shirt and 50-75 crowns for the others.HEAD [40 crowns], ARMS [75 crowns], HANDS [40 crowns], FEET [40 crowns], LEGS [150 crowns], BODY [125 crowns]
- bonehandled blade
- amberhilted ironsword
- sredit prod
- silver warmallet
- yew staff
- sungwood staff
- bladedfeather staff
The weapons seem priced fairly more or less except for some of the daggers mentioned below. I'd pay 150 for a yew, maybe not an amber hilted though.
- silver etched shield - 150 seems pricey. Dunno about that one.
- dull black shield - 50 seems fine. I'd buy this all day over an etched for 3x the cost considering an etched isn't at all 3x as good. Would sell at this price, too, but would like it at 60 more considering the 10% broker cut.
I'd also in theory be interested in the following that are NOT in stock (per the forum post):
- Red Stone Dagger - 150 seems okay
- Silver-Winged Basilard - Unsure about 150.
- Pair of Steel Sai - Think I'd buy at 150, unsure about selling.
Sai and Basilard have the same issue: these items can be crafted for a total cost of 90 crowns if I smelt my own bar or ~120 if I buy it from a store, assuming if I bought the rings as well (they are negligible in cost though). Although since the smith is random and not likely to give Sai I'd fairly likely spend the 150 to guarantee I get the pair of sai versus the others. The inverse of this is that I don't think 135 crowns (150 - 10%) is sufficient to sell for. The cost of production + the random chance involved makes it worth more (wiki says 1 in 5 chance for sai, which seems more or less accurate to me). I suppose they also load at an okay rate in the Waste - although the wiki suggests that the load was changed...
However between kris or basilard I don't particularly care and so I wouldn't spend 150 for a basilard. If I got sai and wanted basilard I'd gladly save them for another time or sell them. Thus I don't see myself ever not going to Katar for a basilard.
- Red Robe - seems fair at 250. Not sure why this wouldn't be in stock, I might put one in myself.
- Mantle - same as above except I have none stored. Would buy a couple if in stock.
- Jeweled Wristcuff - This item in general is a weird one for me. Similar to gring it's only 1db more than a kcuff so functionally I don't see why it is valued so highly... nonetheless 500 is absurdly low given that the clan treasurer values this item at 3000 crowns (I'm assuming it isn't 3000 coppers?)
- Kandori Cuff - 50 crowns seems like a lowball. I'd certainly buy one for that but I dunno about selling. I feel like I could get at least 50ish from just selling to a jewelry store but if I had a couple to offload and the stores were out of gold yeah I'd put them up for sale.
- Obsidian Pendant - 250 seems too much to me.
- Gold Chain - 150 is fair, would buy or sell. Not sure why sid is 100 crowns more.
- C-belt - 150 is... okay I suppose. Wouldn't feel 100% happy on either the seller or buyer side which I guess means it is fairly priced.
- G&I Ring - 150 is okay. Not totally sure how rare these ones are on smobs/mobs but would like to see it at 100 from a buyer's perspective.
- Onyx Inlaid - this won't ever get put up for sale at the same price as an etched because it is a better and rarer shield.
I don't know if the Kris can be stocked but I'd happily buy/sell it at 50-75 gc. I realize this is less than the cost to craft but the kris is the bogey prize you don't really want from the Katar smith and so it would just be a good way to recoup some crafting costs on the seller side, and a good way to quickly get a dagger that is an alternative to jeweled for someone who is re-equipping. It's kind of a lateral alternative versus jeweled (slightly more damage, less OB) which can be acquired for free by punching some young thieves about, so mostly you'd be paying for not having to spend the time wandering around finding the one that loaded a dagger.
If we had access to the transaction data so we could see how often items are stocked and sold we'd be able to set a fair price a lot more accurately. Right now it's a bit of a guessing game as to where the ideal price point is to be fixed - ideally it would be amazing if the price could decrease/raise within a certain range based on # of that item in stock but I am assuming this is beyond the MOBOL's ability.
My other overall thought about pricing is that presumably we'd want to take a reasonable gold per hour rate that a solo person can achieve and compare that to the drop rates on similar gear gained via smobbing with others and keep things more or less at an even keel - such that the smobbers don't feel like the item that only drops 12.5% of the time is worth nothing in Lugard but such that the solo gold people don't feel like they have to grind for days to get some gear together. I realize there will be outliers here but if we base the system on "well X person can get 1,000 crowns an hour" then it won't work for the other 95% of players. It's just not going to work perfectly in that respect given the fixed prices and that'll have to be okay and isn't really that big of a deal anyway. Person who gets that much gold per hour is probably also adept at getting good gear faster than others.
It seems like there is maybe some price premium on the dodge trinkets which maybe is fair but as it is now is too much.
I'd have no objection to sets in theory except that it seems like it would add a lot of work on the imm side in exchange for just a little bit of convenience on the player side. Having the items be piecemeal means that I can just get what I'm missing to finish out my gear (which is the more likely situation if I'm forking over a bunch of gold) or buy extras of a particular item in stock. So whether or not sets can be bought I think that the individual option should remain.would you like it in sets similar to weary merchant? or would you rather just have it in bits?
Finally, as a broader note, the lack of a bank branch in Lugard necessitates carrying large amounts of gold over somewhat dangerous roads which I think reduces the number of transactions that would otherwise be happening. Perhaps this is by design - the idea of rogues lying in wait to snatch up hundreds of crowns is something I find amusing.
On a note unrelated to the Lugard market I would find it intriguing if your guild offered buy/sell orders in some form, IE "I will pay X gold for Y amount of item Z" and facilitated the resulting exchange via holding gold/items in escrow. I've been kicking that idea around in my head for a while but not totally sure how much effort would actually be involved. Potentially lucrative though. For example I say "I'll pay 50 gc for 10 vials" and give you 550 gold (500 for the vials + a broker fee) and then people can come sell vials which I pick up later. Basically exactly how the Lugard brokers work but a little more flexible.
Last edited by Reyne on Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Seeking input...giving gold ring and cbelt!
I think it looks fair honestly.
- Gold Ring - top tier dodge jewelry, comes at a premium. People can smob for it on the off chance one loads (too bad you need two for a full set, what are the odds of smobbing two in a single session and getting to keep them eh?) or people move them from their clanned alts to other alts in shady backend deals. I say 200-250 is safe pricing. They don't grow on trees.
- camouflage hood
- finelyspun hood
- cloth sleeves - I think these should be 50 but, hey 75 works too. You have to pay for convenience.
- finelyspun sleeves
- riveted sleeves
- finely tunic
- bearskin tunic
- leather jerkin
- finelytailored shirt
- dark gloves
- earthen breeches
- riveted leggings
- cloth breeches
- lissome boots
- silvertooled boots
- welloiled boots
HEAD [25 crowns], ARMS [50 crowns], HANDS [25 crowns], FEET [25 crowns], LEGS [50 crowns], BODY [100 crowns]
- bonehandled blade
- amberhilted ironsword
- sredit prod
- silver warmallet
- yew staff
- sungwood staff
- bladedfeather staff
- silver etched shield - 150 is more than fair for the best domestic shield in the game.
- dull black shield - 50 seems fine - what a deal!
I'd also in theory be interested in the following that are NOT in stock (per the forum post):
- Red Stone Dagger - 150 seems okay (daggers should command a premium, as the clientelle they attract. Nothing is easy about a rogue or a stabber in general haha. I'd say hike it to 200 if your feel up to it.
- Silver-Winged Basilard - 200
- Pair of Steel Sai - hike it to 200 since the new crafting changes.
Sai and Basilard - people say you can craft them yadda yadda for cheaper but, time is money friend! *wow quote!*
- Red Robe - seems fair at 250. Not sure why this wouldn't be in stock, I might put one in myself.
- Mantle - same as above except I have none stored. Would buy a couple if in stock.
- Jeweled Wristcuff - 500 is pretty low. I'd think it's a premium price tag so 650 at least. However, kkuffs made them not really viable anymore so 500-650, either or is ok.
- Kandori Cuff - 150-200
- Obsidian Pendant - 250 is good. maybe even 300 to keep people honest. You got to pay to play.
- Gold Chain - 150 is fair, would buy or sell.
- C-belt - harder to find, I'd bump it to 300.
- G&I Ring - 150 is good.
- Gold Ring - top tier dodge jewelry, comes at a premium. People can smob for it on the off chance one loads (too bad you need two for a full set, what are the odds of smobbing two in a single session and getting to keep them eh?) or people move them from their clanned alts to other alts in shady backend deals. I say 200-250 is safe pricing. They don't grow on trees.
- camouflage hood
- finelyspun hood
- cloth sleeves - I think these should be 50 but, hey 75 works too. You have to pay for convenience.
- finelyspun sleeves
- riveted sleeves
- finely tunic
- bearskin tunic
- leather jerkin
- finelytailored shirt
- dark gloves
- earthen breeches
- riveted leggings
- cloth breeches
- lissome boots
- silvertooled boots
- welloiled boots
HEAD [25 crowns], ARMS [50 crowns], HANDS [25 crowns], FEET [25 crowns], LEGS [50 crowns], BODY [100 crowns]
- bonehandled blade
- amberhilted ironsword
- sredit prod
- silver warmallet
- yew staff
- sungwood staff
- bladedfeather staff
- silver etched shield - 150 is more than fair for the best domestic shield in the game.
- dull black shield - 50 seems fine - what a deal!
I'd also in theory be interested in the following that are NOT in stock (per the forum post):
- Red Stone Dagger - 150 seems okay (daggers should command a premium, as the clientelle they attract. Nothing is easy about a rogue or a stabber in general haha. I'd say hike it to 200 if your feel up to it.
- Silver-Winged Basilard - 200
- Pair of Steel Sai - hike it to 200 since the new crafting changes.
Sai and Basilard - people say you can craft them yadda yadda for cheaper but, time is money friend! *wow quote!*
- Red Robe - seems fair at 250. Not sure why this wouldn't be in stock, I might put one in myself.
- Mantle - same as above except I have none stored. Would buy a couple if in stock.
- Jeweled Wristcuff - 500 is pretty low. I'd think it's a premium price tag so 650 at least. However, kkuffs made them not really viable anymore so 500-650, either or is ok.
- Kandori Cuff - 150-200
- Obsidian Pendant - 250 is good. maybe even 300 to keep people honest. You got to pay to play.
- Gold Chain - 150 is fair, would buy or sell.
- C-belt - harder to find, I'd bump it to 300.
- G&I Ring - 150 is good.
Re: Seeking input...giving gold ring and cbelt!
can you sell vials or fireworks? 
Re: Seeking input...giving gold ring and cbelt!
The Guild of Illuminators will happily sell fireworks to our Cairhienin friends.
Re: Seeking input...giving gold ring and cbelt!
Affable Brokers trade both vials and fireworks for items.granit wrote:can you sell vials or fireworks?
Re: Seeking input...giving gold ring and cbelt!
I'd also like to point out that judging an item solely by it's relative statistics for a price isn't exactly the best way to look at it.
Gold rings, for instance. Yes, they're marginally better than an emerald ring, but +2db for a pair can be tremendous. Then there's the fact that they're considered a quest item by various mobs for various things (affables, gamblers, etc etc).
When considering pricing of items, you should take into account more than just the statistic bonus if the item.
I'm also torn on the jcuff. It's a high end item, and it's required to get to a certain DB. You can give it to a Treasury and get 3k crowns for it.. but it sells for 500 crowns on the market hall?
Price Value for pieces should be Chest > Legs > Arms > Hands, Gloves, Feet. Larger bonus to smaller bonus.
I think weapons selling at 150 crowns overall is fine, and I don't have much of an issue with it. Some are harder to get than others, but time is money. You can craft some too, but you're paying to get crafted item (the paper part).
As far as selling whole sets, I find that idea interesting but it should be a set of equipment that can't be bought via the weary merchant. Leather sets, the Dodge PB set, murgoz full kits, etc. It'd be interested if you could purchase trinket sets too.
Give the sets like a 15% reduction if you buy it as a set vrs individual items.
Gold rings, for instance. Yes, they're marginally better than an emerald ring, but +2db for a pair can be tremendous. Then there's the fact that they're considered a quest item by various mobs for various things (affables, gamblers, etc etc).
When considering pricing of items, you should take into account more than just the statistic bonus if the item.
I'm also torn on the jcuff. It's a high end item, and it's required to get to a certain DB. You can give it to a Treasury and get 3k crowns for it.. but it sells for 500 crowns on the market hall?
Price Value for pieces should be Chest > Legs > Arms > Hands, Gloves, Feet. Larger bonus to smaller bonus.
I think weapons selling at 150 crowns overall is fine, and I don't have much of an issue with it. Some are harder to get than others, but time is money. You can craft some too, but you're paying to get crafted item (the paper part).
As far as selling whole sets, I find that idea interesting but it should be a set of equipment that can't be bought via the weary merchant. Leather sets, the Dodge PB set, murgoz full kits, etc. It'd be interested if you could purchase trinket sets too.
Give the sets like a 15% reduction if you buy it as a set vrs individual items.
Re: Seeking input...giving gold ring and cbelt!
Well that's true but what is important varies person to person. For me personally, I've already done all the quests I'm aware of that require a gring, +2db is fairly meaningless (I wasn't even wearing anything but a single brass ring when fighting bobo for an hour the other night), and I'm risking a lot of gold considering a stab will kill me either way and it affects the bash % fairly marginally. If I need one right now I can always issue one for QPs.Florry wrote:I'd also like to point out that judging an item solely by it's relative statistics for a price isn't exactly the best way to look at it.
Gold rings, for instance. Yes, they're marginally better than an emerald ring, but +2db for a pair can be tremendous. Then there's the fact that they're considered a quest item by various mobs for various things (affables, gamblers, etc etc).
When considering pricing of items, you should take into account more than just the statistic bonus if the item.
I don't think they are that rare either, a solo stabber can kill Orma who loads them at an okay rate despite what the wiki says. Meaning I can reprac for 200, go get a gring (plus the gold and whatever other items from smobbing others between pops), and then reprac again. 400 spent repracing minus whatever gold I get from smobs and items sold. I'm just not paying 250 for a gring. I don't expect that to apply to everyone though and maybe I'm just in more of the outlier where grings are concerned.
For me it just comes down to how much time will I spend getting gold versus how much time will it take me to get the item versus how much do I really even want that item. I don't *need* top tier dodge trinkets. I'm not going to spend the gold it takes me days to get for an item it takes me hours to get. It's all highly subjective of course. Maybe my gold farming needs work (I hate doing it so usually I just get gold as needed).
Yeah I agree upping them to 200 is good. I think they'd stay fairly decently stocked and I'd buy them for 200 for the convenience.Sai and Basilard - people say you can craft them yadda yadda for cheaper but, time is money friend! *wow quote!*
It's not even cheaper to craft anyway on average - sai and basilard are only 1/5 chance each which means you need to craft several times on average to get the one you want. I remember I crafted 4-5 krises in a row a few months ago. That certainly wasn't a cheap set of sai - I spent well over 200 in gold alone.
That would be cool. I dunno how I'd feel taking an extra 15% shave as a seller though... maybe if it was instead of the broker fee and not in addition to.Give the sets like a 15% reduction if you buy it as a set vrs individual items.