Ishamael's cycle, the Corenne and the Aiel War.

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Ishamael's cycle, the Corenne and the Aiel War.

Post by Aira » Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:38 am


I was wondering if, considering how destabilizing the Aiel War was, Ishamael was telling Laman he was worthy of a great throne. Previously, I had thought that he might've put up Seanchan to start the Corenne and reclaim Hawkwing's lands. I mean, it takes time to build an army, and construct a fleet to make that work.

According to this link, Ishamael is out roughly every 1000 years, for 40 years. He was known to be out during Hawkwing's time and he's known to have meddled 1000 years before that in the Trolloc Wars.

Since the WoT calendar has changed a few times, here's that info:

As you can see, Hawkwing dies in FY 994. The Free Year calendar runs on until 1117, then becomes the New Era.

We know that Ishamael was out around 1000 AB when the Trolloc Wars begin. So that's 1000 + whatever since the Breaking.
The After Breaking time runs until 1300-something and is replaced by the Free Years.
At 973 Free Year, Hawkwing gets a new advisor, Jalwin Moerad. So this is 300-something plus 973 years, which totals at at least 1273 years.

After Hawkwing's death, Jalwin Moerad kills three major contestants for the throne, essentially breaking up Hawkwing's empire. He disappears 40 years after he appeared, so around 1003.

The Free Years give way to the New Era at 1117 FY, 1 NE. That's 114 years of FY that Ishamael's gone, then onwards to the new Era. Laman cuts down Avendoraldera between 965, when he ascends the throne, but before 978 NE when the Aiel War starts. That's 1092 years at the most.

Lastly, we know that Ishamael put Jarna Malari to death in 982: ... alari.html

It sounds close enough to make it possible that Ishamael is behind Laman's Sin and the Aiel War, which conveniently decimated the Cairhienin army and made them look with suspcion towards any Aiel that might cross the Dragonwall. I suspect that after his activities in Cairhien, or in the mean time, Ishamael was telling Seanchan to reclaim Hawkwing's lost lands. 20 years to build an army and a fleet, as well as scout the Oathbreakers' lands sounds about right, doesn't it?

Lastly, Ba'alzamon was clearly free in Baerlon in book 1. And that still falls within 40 years.

Tigraine vanished due to a Foretelling, which seems legit. Her brother rode into the Blight in 971 to partly become Slayer. Suspicious. The Andoran succession surrounding Morgase? Suspicious. The highly active Black Ajah in New Spring and beyond? Suspicious. Playing hot potato with the Amyrlin Seat, with 3 new Amyrlins in 4 years? Suspicious. This is all in the 970 to 988 NE. That's a lot of upheaval to happen in a short timespan when we know Ishamael was out and about.

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Re: Ishamael's cycle, the Corenne and the Aiel War.

Post by Kali » Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:17 pm

It's not inconceivable. It's known that Ishamael compelled Jain Farstrider around the time of the Aiel War. Jain disappeared into the Blasted Lands around 981 NE. Other Darkfriends and Black Ajah received orders from Ishamael around 982 NE. So he was free shortly thereafter the Aiel War if not before.

Ishamael also boasted of sealing "a doom yet to come" when he convinced Hawkwing to send Luthair across the sea to Seanchan. Would make sense for him to go see them before the events of the Eye of the World.

It would not have been outside of Laman Damodred's personality to do what he did with or without Ishamael's help. Moiraine believed that the Damodred house was tainted somehow, with her forbearers doing some very bad things to grab and hold power. Additionally at least one Damodred, Lord Barthanes, was a Darkfriend. It would not be surprising to find out that other Damodreds were Darkfriends as well, and had become known to Ishamael.

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Re: Ishamael's cycle, the Corenne and the Aiel War.

Post by Aira » Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:20 pm

Moiraine comments her sister isn't entirely stable either, I think. But it's always easier to topple someone who's already a bit off.

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