Revamping the Warranting Rules

[moric]

Incidentally, this is an excellent example of the usefulness of banishments. Per the existing rules, you cannot warrant for clan affiliation. So if clan A declares war on clan B, that declaration isn't grounds for warranting for either side. But a blanket banishment on a clan (Clan A saying Clan B members cannot enter their lands during the war) seems both justified and just. This allows PCs of either clan, who don't wish to participate, to simply not break their banishments and thereby avoid getting warranted.

No no no. It's actually the opposite. This is an excellent example of how you abuse and get around the justice rules. Even if the player doesn't want to participate in the war, you're saying he can't go to a zone like FD that dominates the vast majority of the action. It's bullshit. The player has to break a rule for them to be banished or warranted. You can't blanket banish/warrant everyone. I mean, you do anyway, but you shouldn't.

[Maegon]

I would prefer to know the rules ahead of time though and would like to see all nations post their laws before ever being able to warrant again.

Kind of like I've said before, the forums have been lost 3? times now. It's not a surprise. Most people don't read every single law, so if you get a ticket for jaywalking during Sunday church hours in BFE, Texas, then you appeal the ticket or pay the fine. I still don't understand why some people are requesting for every single possible incident to be covered to the T in every single nation. This is a game that already kills enough time, and it's not feasible.

[moric]

I've devoted probably 20-30 hours writing during this "war". Don't give me it's not feasible. You expect us to know your nations laws that don't even exist? You better make them exist if you want to warrant someone. Imm's devote countless hours to this game. Why is it unfeasible to expect players to devote time to write laws for their nations, get their clan imm to approve it, and post them? I don't know the laws. I am genuinely new to LS for the most part. Absurd.

[Rig]

Rigs Guide To Avoiding Warrants

1: Do not hit mobs
2: Do not talk to anyone
3: Make sure if you feel like killing someone for the joy of blood you land the stab and kill them before they say anything.
4: Laugh at your oppressors and kill them all.

[Razhak]

Actually it should be perfectly fine to do such so in case of a -clan war-

Being in a clan demands a certain amount of adhering to clan-RP

If your clan goes to war with another clan, after having gone through all the usual and traditional pre-ambles, then you as a clanmember should obey orders of your superiors. If you choose to not get involved (which I personally would find awkward as a clanmember...), then atleast dont expect that you can go along as nothing happened and go happy shopping in your enemies capital, drink beers in their taverns and romp around with their serving girls...

It would be like a german soldier walking into a britisch pub during WWII and ordering a beer and claiming: "hey... its not my war?!"

Blanket banishments are fine if used in such cases of a declared clanwar!

[Adael]

Speaking for Andor, this happens to be the case. An example from part of our laws:

7. The Lion Warden reserves the right to order _anyone_ in Andor to remove their cloak and/or gloves/gauntlets to check for contraband. We also reserve the right to order you to remove your pack and give it to us, once again to check for contraband. If you do not comply, you will be banished from Andor. The time of the banishment is up to the Lion Warden on duty. Higher ranking Lion Wardens have the right to overrule any lower ranking Lion Wardens.

First, are these posted anywhere? Second, are there are there any limits to what nations can make as their laws? Can you demand I give you my weapons in addition to my backpack? I'm not giving you my weapon or backpack Can you demand that I must group with you to defend your nation if i'm in it? Do imms have to sign off on your laws? I genuinely don't know how it works.

Our laws might not be posted in ToL yet. I'm holding a discussion on our forums hoping to clarify a few points before doing so. More than happy to post current laws here, and the minor amendments I would like to put in.
Yes, there are limits. I could demand you give me your weapon. In that case, you have every right to refuse. Any warden doing this will get a beatdown from me/Aldevir/Shia/Gawaer. If I request your backpack to check for contraband, you are required to hand it over or be banished. You make the choice. If you don't have contraband in there, you have nothing to fear (examples: accused of theft, accused of having eq from ds/ss in there, etc). No, I can not demand that you group to defend Andor. That's my job, not yours. You have the right to assist but not a requirement to. Yes, immortals have to sign off on our laws. I mailed our current set to Vivienne for approval years ago, and will do so once again if any changes deemed necessary are made. You'd probably find that Andor's Laws are much simpler than those of say, Shienar (the first example that came to mind that I remember reading).

Yes, the clan has the right. We are the defenders of Andor. We are the law. That's kind of the point of the clan. That particular law is written into the lawbook in the barracks, and has been there since Oberon was around (he wrote it). You could also say that imms gave us that right when they approved our laws. Your example with Walker and Dolofonos falls into a jurisdiction thing I think.

[Razhak]

Sometimes I wonder... I wonder how most of the people complaining here on this thread would have fared in the days of, let say...

Steele
Mesa
Wuken
Snorrakk
Dorgo

Some of those would just warrant or kill you just for not handing them whatever piece of equipment they wanted.. or not doing exactly as they say.. or not jumping high enough when they told you to jump

[moric]

You could also say that imms gave us that right when they approved our laws.

Yea, that's what I meant. I wasn't sure if an imm had to sign off on it. Good good.

[Maegon]

As far as I am concerned, there is nothing further to discuss.

We should banish the lamplighter in Fal Dara for not lighting the lamps BEFORE dark.

[Hope]

I always thought it was against Sheinar rules to hide or 'cover your face and head' inside the city. Am I wrong about that?