2017 Weapons Overhaul: Feedback

[erulak]

Herons - creating a difference between long and med was a great and overdue move. Good change. C-c-c-combo breaker could go back to a higher OB, that was interesting to deal with and it's an ABS weapon, so inherent weakness there.

DST - Parry may be a touch low, to the point where you might actually just be better off using it as an abs weapon on non-master characters, but the offensive trade-off is worth it. Good change.

Short blades - glad dirks parry got upped a little bit, glad parry on everything else got downed. The class has been too effective in combo for too long. Like channelers, stabbers should have to pick between the pros/cons of dodge or combo.

Dodge - a lot of whining about how the changes as a whole disproportionately helped dismounted dodgers, but I see enough people exploding all over the place for me to not take those assessments very seriously. Downing OB slightly across the boards was a good move.

Steel warhammer - kind of sucks offensively, but I think people are overlooking that it's in between heron long and heron med for defense, which still makes it a decent combo weapon. I'm surprised by how bad it bashes considering it's a club class weapon.

[Rark]

the steel warhammer just got -10 pb from recent change as far as I can see, or maybe its just that the malus on combo was upped, regardless I went from 161 to 149ish if memory serves me right!

Dodge is/was pretty sick, especially with the added db from clan trinkets. Though it seems situational of course, some days you dodge everything and other days you get bashed 80% by a nonmaster trolloc with a bone club, so is the life. Tbh I've always thought dodge to be one of the best/easiest setups to play, at least on masters, so I might just be weird - gotten so many kills and lived through so many things I shouldn't have because of dodge, of course you explode now and again with a couple zerk masters on you, but that is to be expected.

The heron greatsword really needs looking at. You have to decide what you want from it. It seems silly that it can barely bash 100 db but its a two handed abs heron. Easy fix would be to just replicate the heron long stats and make it two handed only. The damage on it is good, the ob is similar to the scythed sword but it honestly doesn't bash very well and without the ability to bash dodge why are you abs. Seems to have been an oversight from its implemention. First came out as a 12.5? 13.5? abs weapon... now its slightly heavier but with shittier ob. EIther make it have insane OB or make it able to bash as well as a heron medium/long. Its an abs weapon after all, wouldnt be bad to have a rare two handed long blade

[erulak]

Re: warhammer - that's a shame, I guess it's been downed since I used it recently.

Yep - dodge is great right up until it's not. While some changes made it a little bit easier to get 143+ db that's basically a requirement for it to work, that's basically been the case for the past 15 years. It's nowhere near as ideal as combo used to be (and still is, with certain weapons and characters) for the balanced ability to kill and also survive. Right now, I feel like combo will help you survive better, but make it a little harder to get kills by virtue of taking more melee hits, which is closer to where it always should have always been. Meanwhile, dodge will allow you to get some kills, but also just increases the likelihood of dying pretty fast and suddenly.

Though the vast majority of defensive set-ups being combo and not dodge until they weren't given much of a choice from, like, 2004-2016 should tell you what the playerbase prioritized and what's "always" been easier.

[Xylan]

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1h Lances
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hollow steel        - 69 ob, 0 pb, 12.0 lb, lance, 22 dmg
leatherleaf         - 68 ob, 0 pb, 12.0 lb, lance, 19 dmg
steel-shafted       - 72 ob, 0 pb, 16.0 lb, lance, 19 dmg
diamond tipped*     - 77 ob, 0 pb, 18.0 lb, lance, 25 dmg (honed)

Praise: Thank you for increasing the durability of lances across the board. Definitely helps the class.

Issue: My only input is that Hollow steel and Leatherleaf OB and weight are too a little low with no justification except that they are store-bought. Can we have some more lances added, perhaps, that only load on smobs, to fill the gap between trash lance and superior lance?

Solution: Make hollow steel 75 ob, and leatherleaf 14 lbs and 70 ob. Add a new lance that is positioned below dt lance: 75 ob, 0 pb, 16 lbs, 22 dmg.

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1h Medium blades
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blue scimitar       - 77 ob, 35 pb, 7.0 lb, slash, 13 dmg
falcata             - 76 ob, 38 pb, 5.0 lb, slash, 13 dmg
ring quill          - 65 ob, 49 pb, 6.0 lb, slash, 14 dmg
plain curved        - 79 ob, 31 pb, 5.0 lb, slash, 12 dmg
iron amber          - 82 ob, 18 pb, 6.0 lb, slash, 15 dmg
bone-handled        - 77 ob, 37 pb, 4.0 lb, slash, 17 dmg
silver plated       - 73 ob, 22 pb, 15.0 lb, slash, 13 dmg

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1h Longblades
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brass general       - 76 ob, 21 pb, 14.5 lb, slash, 18 dmg
oddly longsword     - 78 ob, 39 pb, 12.5 lb, slash, 19 dmg
ivory gold          - 78 ob, 32 pb, 13.5 lb, slash, 18 dmg
twisted scimitar    - 80 ob, 34 pb, 13.0 lb, slice, 21 dmg
pale steel          - 74 ob, 44 pb, 10.5 lb, slash, 15 dmg

Issue: Medium blades generally still do not compete well with long blades. The lack in weigh should give them more superior defense and accuracy than long blades as they are easier to handle, and the damage should be as good, if not a little less than than the long blades. These medium blades are in the shortblade damage range but they do not have attack to make up for it.

Solution: Decrease pb and ob of 1h longblades OR increase ob and dmg on 1h med blades

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1h Spears
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mahogany spear      - 72 ob, 42 pb, 10.7 lb, strike, 20 dmg

Issue: 10.7 is an OCD-triggering number for a weight.

Solution: Make it 10.5 lbs or 11.0 lbs



In my opinion and based on my test numbers, I've found that saw axe, twisted iron scimitar, enormous battle axe, gold spear and basilard are a little -too- good at overshadowing weapons of their own class as well as others with a similar niche.

1h clubs and 2h clubs are at the bottom in terms of overall efficiency. I think the 20% bash bonus was a little over-justified.

[Xylan]

Here's an example as to how terrible abs and abs weapons are, mainly clubs. I count 12 hits on him at crit with a mallet, 2 hits by trees and he didn't die, even though there was a half tic in there, still shoulda been dead.

There are many 1h and 2h dodge/combo weapons that do more damage than 1h and 2h clubs right now.

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1h Clubs
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bone                - 71 ob, 25 pb, 15.0 lb, pound, 13 dmg
banded cudgel       - 71 ob, 27 pb, 13.5 lb, pound, 13 dmg
flanged mace        - 74 ob, 22 pb, 12.5 lb, crush, 18 dmg
steel warhammer*    - 80 ob, 36 pb, 14.5 lb, pound, 17 dmg (honed)

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2h Clubs
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prod                - 80 ob, 0 pb, 16.0 lb, pound, 20 dmg
spiked warhammer    - 73 ob, 0 pb, 17.5 lb, pound, 17 dmg
silver mallet       - 75 ob, 0 pb, 17.0 lb, pound, 19 dmg
warmaul*            - 75 ob, 0 pb, 17.0 lb, crush, 27 dmg

[Rig]

Why are clubs still ass.

[Reyne]

Meanwhile, dodge will allow you to get some kills, but also just increases the likelihood of dying pretty fast and suddenly.

This seems accurate to me

[Roadeur]

After extensive use of Heron Greatsword - they're not fit for purpose. A rare ABS weapon needs better bash. As it is it's a bit too low weight, and it has less OB than a Heron Longsword - which is just silly. The damage is nice for sure, but since 50% of the mud is running around in dodge now, Heron Greatsword just doesnt do what a rare weapon should - essentially offer an upgrade in your capabilities over a standard weapon. Look at a Heron Medium or Heron Long - both are upgrades on the standard model over all categories. Given a)there are significantly less rare ABS weapons than rare defence weapons and b)you don't gain the benefit of survivability with a rare ABS weapon like you do with rare defence weapons, I feel like they're currently a missed opportunity.

[Firimei Lang]

If anyone could clarify the changes in combo gear relative to the updated post, that would be great.

[Jonny]

Revising my opinion on steel sai. Seems that since I first checked they've lost about 5 more ob, 5 more pb (and the pb was already rotten) and damage seems reduced. They have to give something else besides a prac bonus to be worth using, currently anyone using them is running around with great pracs but a horrible weapon. Could be upgraded to at least be a poor weapon compared to rest of class and that would be an improvement on current stats Obviously needs to be a malus to using them, I just think it is a bit much as things stand.