Change to Master Damage

[Thore]

But as far as the shirt, I couldn't find the post, but I thought the stated reasoning was higher DB to help counter mounted bash. A DL is MUCH more likely to encounter mounted/master/warrior bashers than LS FCs, especially mounted master bonded gaidin, which are in nearly every pk, and if I remember right from the quick numbers I checked, 5 db is an improvement for sure, but doesn't fully outweigh mounted bash.

The extra sps are negligible, especially if you consider angreal. FC angreal are pretty easy to get, and after 3 weaves with a statuette, that extra sp pool is pretty much negated. The other stuff is pretty decent though. If you're looking for the capes, which have the exact same stats as the DL coat, they sell commonly in Caemlyn.

Agreed on mounted basher. Disagree on master warrior basher. Well, until warriors got nerfed. Before then every channel I ran into a ton of Ghar master bashers. Now they are fades because they lost berserk attack. What's scarier a mounted basher or a berserk basher? 100% that favors the dreadlord.

Edit - I had to address the second point. The extra SPS weave pool is not negligible. Just do the math man. I don't know that I've ever ran into you and I don't even recognize the name, that's not a slight, we just likely haven't played at the same time. However, take one weave, reduce the SPS by whatever angreal, then take the total SPS pool of a dreadlord, and tell me how many weaves they get after dividing.

Then do the same for a green Tower channie who has two Gaidin reducing her SPS pool. I'm lazy, can someone do this math for me and post? I'm interested.

[Thore]

It does something to help the new players - but nothing to touch the warrior bonus. Which I long heralded as a great move because it gave a new player an easy to stat, easy to play, top tier DPS character that would always be fun and good to play (bread and butter of PK).

Agreed on everything except that berserk attack is not the best we can do. It is definitely still a win more mechanic. I'm not going to change my mind on that. Is it better than nothing? Yes. Is it better than anything else we could come up with collectively? No.

[Thore]

Just dropping my two coppers in here.

I still want to know why all the dreadlords quit, though.

I haven't quit, but I haven't been around. I've had all of maybe 30 minutes of play time in the last 1-2 months due to RL. I very much enjoy playing Dovain and wish I could dedicate more time to it, but I haven't been able to be on any character really, Dovain included.

Agree to disagree.

+30 sp/night vision/able to ride any horse/insane weave pracs the higher you go/rat&raven reports/issuable shirt that’s the best chest piece in game for dodge that nobody else can use/issuable half-cape equivalent/moblead

Those are all incredibly cool things, and the only things you share with any other class are the shadow eye reports and moblead. You are by no means getting your chain yanked from under you.

Coming from a used to be dreadlord

Maybe there's a reason you didn't stay Dreadlord? (JK, not going to assume your intentions or anything)

But as far as the shirt, I couldn't find the post, but I thought the stated reasoning was higher DB to help counter mounted bash. A DL is MUCH more likely to encounter mounted/master/warrior bashers than LS FCs, especially mounted master bonded gaidin, which are in nearly every pk, and if I remember right from the quick numbers I checked, 5 db is an improvement for sure, but doesn't fully outweigh mounted bash.

The extra sps are negligible, especially if you consider angreal. FC angreal are pretty easy to get, and after 3 weaves with a statuette, that extra sp pool is pretty much negated. The other stuff is pretty decent though. If you're looking for the capes, which have the exact same stats as the DL coat, they sell commonly in Caemlyn.

The reasoning for the DL shirt may be "more likely to encounter mounted bashers" but I find that so insanely specific and stupid. As a fade I am more likely to be targeted by weaves. Where is my weave reduction. It doesn't make any logical sense. FCs on LS face mounted bashers all the time, its not always LS vs DS. SS will be mounted bashers as well. Nearly every PK session has fades with how many we have. Trollocs get some extra OB on top of dism OB as well as warriors not getting another 5. The change is fine with me because Jestin just got a huge bump but the fact is that it was not necessary at all.

I need to start counting the people who understand how game design balance works. So far I think I'm up to two or three.

[Thore]

Don't think DL needs to be anything other than "dark side channeler" - what they should have is cool RP, like ice blue eyes or something. I don't think they even hiss and that is where they are really weak. If I ever make DL I shall bring this up on DL forums as a balance issue.

Bonuses should be about less tedious gameplay than tilting the already tilted scale of experienced vs new players. And in a similar vein, characters/classes should be FUN to play - if too many fades on, it should be a GOOD option to switch to your trolloc, not like ugh now I'm severely limited in -everything-

Why serious pk channelers stop playing is really because even a wilder in skilled hands is probably more powerful than even a fade or bonded gaidin. What jestin did with wvd/quake, a level 28 wilder with an angreal could probably do (on a smaller scale!) if it was being played by...jestin not davor..davor would probably be the bonded gaidin dying despite his bonuses like zerk attack in that scenario

Note: if you have blue eyes (I forgot this is global community!) please don't accuse me of exoticising you. instead read toni morrison's the bluest eye!

Agree with most of this although a level 28 Wilder could not do it. You might not play a channeler, but someone can do the math and say that they cannot do it. They just don't have the SPS pool. And they don't have Jade's. They could get close, and yes a while there is a dangerous tool. I suggest anyone who hasn't tried one to try it. It's really fun. But it is a whole different ballgame compared to your average follow and spam and bash warrior. Gosh it's insanely more challenging but insanely more rewarding. It's the upper ceiling of what keeps a player playing this game. The game needs higher ceilings, but not by power, by interest of mechanics and on the fly decision making. Not to smash an enemy easier, but to make it more fun for the pros.

[Bryan]

Would rather they did away with all the rank based bonuses for fades so we could stay in our clans after we remorted, I think that was the issue back when they tried it out, everyone had r7+ fade timer/reach, would be neat if they just capped it at what rank 3 or 4 is now - or even what rank 1 is - and kept us in our respective clans. Or maybe if it could be made a flag a kin to Chosen, so you'd still be a Dha'vol Myrddraal or whatever clan you came from, would also help identify the second class fades that came from Ko'bal like Erulak and Rig so you know which fades actually put in some work and who played on easy mode.
Would incidentally also "fix" what some of the other remorts have been annoyed about with regards to master damage.

Thank you for speaking sense to the unwashed masses (ie, Rig). Everything in here should be done!

[Thore]

Would rather they did away with all the rank based bonuses for fades so we could stay in our clans after we remorted, I think that was the issue back when they tried it out, everyone had r7+ fade timer/reach, would be neat if they just capped it at what rank 3 or 4 is now - or even what rank 1 is - and kept us in our respective clans. Or maybe if it could be made a flag a kin to Chosen, so you'd still be a Dha'vol Myrddraal or whatever clan you came from, would also help identify the second class fades that came from Ko'bal like Erulak and Rig so you know which fades actually put in some work and who played on easy mode.
Would incidentally also "fix" what some of the other remorts have been annoyed about with regards to master damage.

I got no skin in this and yes please.

whois rig
Rig the Kid [Ko'bal Myrddraal shortBladepsuedomasterNoob] is a level 29 Rank 7 Ko'bal. With all the bonuses because handicaps for kids. Can fade him and his uncle to Camp based on rank.

whois fadedude
Fadedude the dude [Dha'vol Myrddraal Blademaster] is a level 52 Rank 99 Dha'vol. Still can only fade him and two psmobbers to BR fade or klithe from TKD despite rank 99.

[Vampa]

Thore, don't forget to breathe.

[tekela]

But as far as the shirt, I couldn't find the post, but I thought the stated reasoning was higher DB to help counter mounted bash. A DL is MUCH more likely to encounter mounted/master/warrior bashers than LS FCs, especially mounted master bonded gaidin, which are in nearly every pk, and if I remember right from the quick numbers I checked, 5 db is an improvement for sure, but doesn't fully outweigh mounted bash.

It was a stupid justification then too. They're not MUCH more likely to encounter mounted/master/warrior bashers than LS. You named three things and DS typically has more in any given situation (masters and warriors) and there are plenty of mounted DS/SS characters that they fight especially after free-remort month.

Also, what are you comparing when you say it doesn't "fully outweigh" mounted bash? Trollocs quaffing teas to get 21 strength also close (and very slightly exceed) the gap just on the basis of OB -> bash % on the riding bash bonus on everything except bash from master warders.

DLs wearing those shirts effectively have 19 dex relative to every other dodge character and don't really give up all the things (or anything) you'd think would justify that.

Also, jesus christ, Thore.

[vaheed]

Thore, don't forget to breathe.

Sounds like he might be too lazy to.

[Skurk]

Don't think DL needs to be anything other than "dark side channeler" - what they should have is cool RP, like ice blue eyes or something. I don't think they even hiss and that is where they are really weak. If I ever make DL I shall bring this up on DL forums as a balance issue.

Bonuses should be about less tedious gameplay than tilting the already tilted scale of experienced vs new players. And in a similar vein, characters/classes should be FUN to play - if too many fades on, it should be a GOOD option to switch to your trolloc, not like ugh now I'm severely limited in -everything-

Why serious pk channelers stop playing is really because even a wilder in skilled hands is probably more powerful than even a fade or bonded gaidin. What jestin did with wvd/quake, a level 28 wilder with an angreal could probably do (on a smaller scale!) if it was being played by...jestin not davor..davor would probably be the bonded gaidin dying despite his bonuses like zerk attack in that scenario

Note: if you have blue eyes (I forgot this is global community!) please don't accuse me of exoticising you. instead read toni morrison's the bluest eye!

Agree with most of this although a level 28 Wilder could not do it. You might not play a channeler, but someone can do the math and say that they cannot do it. They just don't have the SPS pool. And they don't have Jade's. They could get close, and yes a while there is a dangerous tool. I suggest anyone who hasn't tried one to try it. It's really fun. But it is a whole different ballgame compared to your average follow and spam and bash warrior. Gosh it's insanely more challenging but insanely more rewarding. It's the upper ceiling of what keeps a player playing this game. The game needs higher ceilings, but not by power, by interest of mechanics and on the fly decision making. Not to smash an enemy easier, but to make it more fun for the pros.

This is halerious. She plays some of the best FC on LS (active anyway).