Bash and Shields

[Barabbas]

I checked Wiki with no results and asked about it way back when on Wotmud Archives with no answer.

Anyone have any metrics or best-practices for 1h/shield vs 2h bash? Does a heavy shield like large triangular shield or brightly emblazoned bash better than a silver-etched, or is it just there to adjust BMI?

If it was just weight, I'd image everyone would use heavy clubs with triangular shields. I've tried that setup and wasn't overly impressed with bash results, but my sample size was pretty small.

[Eol]

Heavy clubs did not actually bash that well even back when they had other positive traits and were very heavy (18 lbs). I suspect the people who have attempted to creates formulas based on OB, Weight, and Parry are closer to the mark.

[Taziar]

I didn't do any of the tests, but what I remember from having a discussion with someone who did:

Shield bash alone, no weapon equiped, silver etched out bashed a triangle and the thought was that it was because of the PB difference.
When you add a weapon with a shield it changes the formula somehow and things don't seem to add up the same.
They stopped testing without getting much headway into figuring it out any further.

So best practice is to use the best PB shield you can find imo.

[Zarth]

The formula for bash is (OB * Weight * 10)/150 + PB/4, so yes the best pb shield is the one to use!

[Treach]

So if it includes shield then does it also include trinks? So combo with parry trinks has slightly better bash than dodge trinks? Below is combo with bone club and has stats berserk, brave and wimpy.

berserk 176, 83, 120
brave 162, 83, 138
wimpy 141, 83, 170

(176*15*10/150)+(120/4) = 206
(162*15*10/150)+(138/4) = 196.5
(141*15*10/150)+(170/4) = 183.5

Now swap parry trinks for dodge trinks.

berserk 176, 100, 105
brave 162, 100, 121
wimpy 141, 100, 149

(176*15*10/150)+(105/4) = 202.25
(162*15*10/150)+(121/4) = 192.25
(141*15*10/150)+(149/4) = 178.25

[Hress]

Somehow in my tests boarspear bashes better w/o shield than with shield, if i add any shield the bash drops a bit.
Probably barehanded bash with shield is the special case, like the fully naked char has uber ability to dodge bashes.
So i think Lykan's formula a bit better: viewtopic.php?f=74&t=7017&start=60
It means that shield pb drops bash, but other sources of pb ups bash.

[Draz]

In the specific case of spears do you think it might be something to do with the spear mounted bonus?

[Hress]

I rechecked my tests results and i was wrong, it was same chance as with shield and w/o shield in terms of chance ranges, because it all was close to bash cap. Bash always has cap . For example for leatherleaf sappling it is 80%.
Retested below cap, and yes shield ups bash via parry bonus.
So Zarth is right finally
And yes mounted state ups bash by like 5-10%, i think it is bonus mounted vs unmounted and if both are mounted this bonus does not apply.
And spears does not have additional bash bonus while mounted, it is just mounted bonus.

[fiddler]

So you're saying mounted LS will always bash better than trolls while using the same weapon setup in the long run?

[Chuker]

The formula for bash is (OB * Weight * 10)/150 + PB/4, so yes the best pb shield is the one to use!

If this is true does that mean bone-crushing mattock is the best bashing 2 handed clubs?
From Wiki
a bone-crushing mattock DMG:9d3 OB:85 PB:5 18.0 lbs (103.25)
a s'redit prod DMG:7d4 OB:85 PB:7 17.0 lbs (98.08)
a spiked double handed warhammer DMG:8d4 OB:78 PB:5 17.5 lbs (92.25)
a massive war maul DMG:5d9 OB:80 PB:0 17.0 lbs (90.67)
a tainted war maul DMG:6d8 OB:77 PB:1 17.5 lbs (90.08)