Walled at level 40.

... A place to ask for help on any topic whether it be starting out to player killing to IT issues.
Rig
Posts: 2226
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: JESUS

Re: Walled at level 40.

Post by Rig » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:47 pm

Another thing I noticed, through our limited discussion about the topic of exp scalps.

You should be farming those in abs, ideally. You can definitely kill them all at level 40 with a binnol in abs gear solo. As for information, asking questions is great. Sometimes you won't always get the answers you want to hear. i.e. the responses about CoL and MC's. As for backstory, I also suck. I've joined a few of the 'hardcore' rp clans, and i've only ever made headway in one of them. Mostly because i'm more of a playerkiller than a roleplayer.

It's probably a good idea to start small, and work your way up depending on how much you want the character to be fleshed out. Start with a small backstory for Locken being born Tearinin nobility, and getting your family murdered by Mayene Guardsman and you escaped by living in a barrel on a riverboat until you made it to Aringill. Something like that. It can be wonky and wacky, or it can be serious and to the point. It does require a little bit of effort, but it's not something you should stress about too much.

Theren
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Walled at level 40.

Post by Theren » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:57 pm

Locken wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:21 pm
I never clanned any of my characters, and i thought about it. I wanted to. I wanted baki to join the queens guard, Geoff said to make a backstory for him and join the forums. I suck at creating backstories, I suck at writing in general. I've never really been into the RP aspect but i was trying. Maybe next time i'll get to experience that.
Lots of good feedback from you here and lots of good feedback from others on this thread, but I wanted to reply to just this specific bit. I'm sorry you felt like the RP was discouraging and I hope that if others feel similarly they will read this post. Don't let the RP be a barrier, it's at worst a necessity of the setting. For anyone considering how to start thinking about RP for clanning, go for the simplest thing. It would be totally fine for a Queen's Guard applicant to say, "I grew up on a farm near Four Kings and always wanted to be a Queen's Guard. I want to serve the Queen and protect Andor" and have that be it. RP doesn't need to be detailed, it doesn't have to be many page stories on the Roleplay forum, it can just be "I'm a farmer and I want to have a sword." In the books, that's basically Rand's whole backstory! It's a great starting point for a character, and then if you decide you want to RP more you'll find more out about your character and have some fun with it. And if you don't want to, you don't have to! Just do what the Queen's Guard are supposed to do (protect Andor and the Queen), and have fun on the game.

Locken
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:00 pm

Re: Walled at level 40.

Post by Locken » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:43 pm

Rig wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:47 pm
Another thing I noticed, through our limited discussion about the topic of exp scalps.

You should be farming those in abs, ideally. You can definitely kill them all at level 40 with a binnol in abs gear solo. As for information, asking questions is great. Sometimes you won't always get the answers you want to hear. i.e. the responses about CoL and MC's. As for backstory, I also suck. I've joined a few of the 'hardcore' rp clans, and i've only ever made headway in one of them. Mostly because i'm more of a playerkiller than a roleplayer.

It's probably a good idea to start small, and work your way up depending on how much you want the character to be fleshed out. Start with a small backstory for Locken being born Tearinin nobility, and getting your family murdered by Mayene Guardsman and you escaped by living in a barrel on a riverboat until you made it to Aringill. Something like that. It can be wonky and wacky, or it can be serious and to the point. It does require a little bit of effort, but it's not something you should stress about too much.
https://imgflip.com/i/5tkt7q

I'm not being a dick, it's just when you watch discord and chats, and the forums, and this is all i can think about.

Geoff
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:03 am

Re: Walled at level 40.

Post by Geoff » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:17 pm

I get why newer players might get the impression that abs is bad from all the discourse on balance.

Important to note is that much of the discourse around the effectiveness of abs vs combo vs dodge playstyles is in the context of higher level PK, and even in that context there are situations where abs work well and where it does not.

A few reasons why newer players are often pushed to play abs first (note, not forever) is so they can 1) survive longer generally due to being hit less hard, 2) reeq more easily (since abs doesn't rely on trinkets to be effective) and 3) get an idea for how long they can survive with full abs eq, which will help them adjust to playing combo/dodge down the track (instead of, for example, playing dodge first then getting confused as to why they blew up against one bash).

Locken
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:00 pm

Re: Walled at level 40.

Post by Locken » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:38 pm

Geoff wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:17 pm
I get why newer players might get the impression that abs is bad from all the discourse on balance.

Important to note is that much of the discourse around the effectiveness of abs vs combo vs dodge playstyles is in the context of higher level PK, and even in that context there are situations where abs work well and where it does not.

A few reasons why newer players are often pushed to play abs first (note, not forever) is so they can 1) survive longer generally due to being hit less hard, 2) reeq more easily (since abs doesn't rely on trinkets to be effective) and 3) get an idea for how long they can survive with full abs eq, which will help them adjust to playing combo/dodge down the track (instead of, for example, playing dodge first then getting confused as to why they blew up against one bash).
Theres a balance though. I played abs, had all these extra pracs. I could rock 7 survival, 7 ride, hell i could make an abs back stabbing rogue. Later on you switch to a different play style and you have to relearn where to put those pracs. Okay, i cant have 7 ride and survival anymore because i need dodge, or shield parry. So how much do i absolutely need to be effective? Okay i can drop to 4 ride, horses will always follow me, but if it gets attacked it can die without me intercepting it. Ah, can't bash either. So lets take some pracs out of bash and maybe a little shield parry and okay, i can bash from horseback now. Getting hit more often cause i didnt max dodge and my shield parry is too low.

Do you see how confusing this can be for somebody who is completely new to the game? Like I've searched, i cant find baselines anywhere. You would think somewhere there would be a simple cookie cutter build that you can break down and trim to whatever your needs are. Starting a fresh character Clive even tells you, Go get level 3 ride to fight from horseback, and level 1 survival so you can butcher wildlife for meat. For the rest of it i'm dumped on my ass and told "Pitter patter, lets get at 'er!" You search the wiki, can't find the information you're looking for - so lets ask the chat. Darn, they're linking me to the wiki site that has a very brief base game description...

Nunzio
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:47 am
Location: USA, Virginia

Re: Walled at level 40.

Post by Nunzio » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:06 pm

Locken wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:38 pm
Geoff wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:17 pm
I get why newer players might get the impression that abs is bad from all the discourse on balance.

Important to note is that much of the discourse around the effectiveness of abs vs combo vs dodge playstyles is in the context of higher level PK, and even in that context there are situations where abs work well and where it does not.

A few reasons why newer players are often pushed to play abs first (note, not forever) is so they can 1) survive longer generally due to being hit less hard, 2) reeq more easily (since abs doesn't rely on trinkets to be effective) and 3) get an idea for how long they can survive with full abs eq, which will help them adjust to playing combo/dodge down the track (instead of, for example, playing dodge first then getting confused as to why they blew up against one bash).
Theres a balance though. I played abs, had all these extra pracs. I could rock 7 survival, 7 ride, hell i could make an abs back stabbing rogue. Later on you switch to a different play style and you have to relearn where to put those pracs. Okay, i cant have 7 ride and survival anymore because i need dodge, or shield parry. So how much do i absolutely need to be effective? Okay i can drop to 4 ride, horses will always follow me, but if it gets attacked it can die without me intercepting it. Ah, can't bash either. So lets take some pracs out of bash and maybe a little shield parry and okay, i can bash from horseback now. Getting hit more often cause i didnt max dodge and my shield parry is too low.

Do you see how confusing this can be for somebody who is completely new to the game? Like I've searched, i cant find baselines anywhere. You would think somewhere there would be a simple cookie cutter build that you can break down and trim to whatever your needs are. Starting a fresh character Clive even tells you, Go get level 3 ride to fight from horseback, and level 1 survival so you can butcher wildlife for meat. For the rest of it i'm dumped on my ass and told "Pitter patter, lets get at 'er!" You search the wiki, can't find the information you're looking for - so lets ask the chat. Darn, they're linking me to the wiki site that has a very brief base game description...
Yes, all the different opinions on what's good/what's not is very confusing. You're also playing a game that's been around for a super long time with people that have been playing for maybe half their lives. They tend to understand the nuances on a different level than a newer player. Newer players really shouldn't understand them anyway. It's far too complex to be able to get right away. I still don't understand all the different nuances and I played for a good chunk of time in the 2000s and started back again last year. Newer players should really be focused on learning the mechanics, their way around, and the basics of combat. Once you have that somewhat down, you might start experimenting with different setups to see what fits you the best.

verne
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:57 pm

Re: Walled at level 40.

Post by verne » Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:55 am

Locken wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:38 pm
Geoff wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:17 pm
I get why newer players might get the impression that abs is bad from all the discourse on balance.

Important to note is that much of the discourse around the effectiveness of abs vs combo vs dodge playstyles is in the context of higher level PK, and even in that context there are situations where abs work well and where it does not.

A few reasons why newer players are often pushed to play abs first (note, not forever) is so they can 1) survive longer generally due to being hit less hard, 2) reeq more easily (since abs doesn't rely on trinkets to be effective) and 3) get an idea for how long they can survive with full abs eq, which will help them adjust to playing combo/dodge down the track (instead of, for example, playing dodge first then getting confused as to why they blew up against one bash).
Theres a balance though. I played abs, had all these extra pracs. I could rock 7 survival, 7 ride, hell i could make an abs back stabbing rogue. Later on you switch to a different play style and you have to relearn where to put those pracs. Okay, i cant have 7 ride and survival anymore because i need dodge, or shield parry. So how much do i absolutely need to be effective? Okay i can drop to 4 ride, horses will always follow me, but if it gets attacked it can die without me intercepting it. Ah, can't bash either. So lets take some pracs out of bash and maybe a little shield parry and okay, i can bash from horseback now. Getting hit more often cause i didnt max dodge and my shield parry is too low.

Do you see how confusing this can be for somebody who is completely new to the game? Like I've searched, i cant find baselines anywhere. You would think somewhere there would be a simple cookie cutter build that you can break down and trim to whatever your needs are. Starting a fresh character Clive even tells you, Go get level 3 ride to fight from horseback, and level 1 survival so you can butcher wildlife for meat. For the rest of it i'm dumped on my ass and told "Pitter patter, lets get at 'er!" You search the wiki, can't find the information you're looking for - so lets ask the chat. Darn, they're linking me to the wiki site that has a very brief base game description...
So the reason nobody posts a cookie cutter build, is because your pracs are generally extremely based on what you are doing on that character at that time. I could put up what I think is standard right now and the first five people to read it will instantly disagree with me because they play differently or value things differently. Personally i usually am playing a drastically different prac setup every week even on the same character. So how you prac it should rely depend on what type of activities that you are planning on doing as well as what types of activities you tend to fall back on. This is where a thorough knowledge of things that you do a lot is extremely important. If i am deciding whether to get pick or not, I am going to base it off of how many pracs I have with everything else thats going on, and balance that to what i normally go to. For me on most of my characters im weighing the opportunity cost of what else i could be getting against 3 bars of value, 47% gets me into baerlon, kennel keeper, and armored sentry, 79 gets me into roland, passgate, and jafar. Im not caring about anything in between, or that i need higher to get into ruined keep even though for other players that may be the only reason they are considering pick. But the only way i figured this out was to experiment and find out what I needed to do the things that i like doing. So i spent a few repracs with way more than i needed to explore and find what i like having access to, and then spend a couple repracs with a lower % and check what i could get into with that amount, which left me a bunch of less than ideal setups where I either had too much and i coulda used those pracs elsewhere or not enough and it was wasted, but eventually was able to zero on what i need to be most efficient.

So every reprac is generally a balance weighing the various opportunities, and the only way to effectively make those tradeoffs if you have tried all the skills at various levels and see what each gets you. That knowledge that you can only get through trial and error helps build your knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of each setup so that you can leverage your own abilities better. I get that it can be frustrating not knowing where to start but there really isnt a standard thing that anyone uses.

That being said there are a few generally accepted practices:
*there's really no reason to get anything in the middle of 1 rank of notice and 89%
-1 rank notice lets you see rats, 89% lets you hit a hidden target 100% of the time if notice is on and you hit k h.target, some people prefer 90% to get one extra % chance of a stab bricking on you when notice is on, anything higher just gives you a better chance of hitting a hidden target with k target (while notice is still on) saving the moves from not having to type k h.target

*level 4 ride is pretty standard if you are not bashing, lvl 6 is pretty standard if you are.

*lvl 1 survival to butcher, lvl 6 survival for extra moves over rough terrain (with side bonus of not eating/drinking as often), lvl 7 survival if spending lots of time flying over rough terrain (like the blight) at top spamming speed, generally everything else is worthless

*Unless you know what you are doing and have a reason to then dont pk in dodge on anything thats not a channeler unless you have 99 dodge, 19 dex, and a full dodge set without missing any trinkets
-even if pracced for dodge, if you are a couple of trinkets here and there you can use heavy combo or something until you get all the pieces you are missing

*very, very, very loose rule of thumb combo generally wants 92%+ dodge with 85% shield parry, with dodge usually being more important than shield parry

search get what you need in order to do the things that you want, search and pick are both ones that you will want to test on your own, and find out exactly what you need for your favorite stuff even if you are inefficient for a little while that knowledge will help you make better prac choices later.

92% in any skill or weapon is usually enough to be useful, in order to do something poorly. 99% is better in anything that you use a lot. An example is when as an FC i can afford to get 92% bash and staves, or i can get 99% staves with no bash, im going to have a good chunk higher pb and ob with just staves (compounded by the fact id be using fb staff instead of leatherleaf), 92% bash and staves will mean im not hitting as well or bashing particularly well but it opens up the option to be bashing which I want when facing an abser or saving sps in an smob.

1 rank in rescue allows you to spam rescues until one lands, helping a zerk teammate, an afk person, or certain cases in smobs

if stabbing hide > backtab > sneak and sblades, but is not recommended any of them is under 90 and obviously the higher the better

dont get swim. or bows. ever. for any reason. canoes are next to every spot you need to get across water, and even fully pracced has chances of drowning, and theres really no reason to ever need it. In a similar fashion unless you have a good reason for it its probably worthless to prac any amount of palm, steal, ranger sneak, or cover tracks. Theyve been used somewhat successfully by a couple players before, but generally there is no need for it

Dinuc
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:53 am

Re: Walled at level 40.

Post by Dinuc » Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:37 am

verne wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:55 am

So the reason nobody posts a cookie cutter build, is because your pracs are generally extremely based on what you are doing on that character at that time.
Yea this is a sandbox game. There is no right way to play it. You can do whatever you like whether RP or PK etc. There was a guy that RP aiel and so didn't even practice ride.

Orlin
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:49 am

Re: Walled at level 40.

Post by Orlin » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:02 am

I asked on Discord but it may be worthy of asking here. I realize most do not have cookie cutter practice guides.

So I asked, what do you practice to above 70% on most characters figuring that there are some niche characters out there.

One could elaborate on that a little and say what to you practice on warriors/hunters above 70%? Maybe even 50%? Especially for a new player.

One could even specify a little bit more and say for prerolled warriors/hunters since that is what the game steers a newer player towards.

One could even break it up by 10% ranges but that would get messy so I just chose 70%

So here I will ask what do you prac 1-2 times? What do you do above 70%?

I've probably muddied the water by presenting too many options.

For example.

I couldn't imagine having no ride would make for an enjoyable experience, or a weapon. ETC.

So for example

Above 70?
Hunter: Weapon, Ride, Survival, Notice, Track
Warrior: Weapon, Ride, Notice

Have a few pracs in?
Warrior: Survival

What I wonder if I should put one or 2 prac into: Swim, Search

My answers may be crap but that is what I would tell someone truly new. I wouldn't say get anything to 99%. Stop where the prac trainer starts giving you 1% on a skill.

Then go out and play. See what happens. If you get into many fights, you can decide what is working and not and maybe your weapon isn't hitting EVERY time so you go to 99%.

I see 99% as if I want to solo PK :) I am most likely wrong but I think 93% is ok starting out as I try other stuff.

When I get to the point I want to solo pk then I can get 99%bash/charge 99% weapon or 99% hide/99% bs or whatever :)

Aloisa
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Walled at level 40.

Post by Aloisa » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:52 am

Orlin wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:02 am
I asked on Discord but it may be worthy of asking here. I realize most do not have cookie cutter practice guides.

So I asked, what do you practice to above 70% on most characters figuring that there are some niche characters out there.

One could elaborate on that a little and say what to you practice on warriors/hunters above 70%? Maybe even 50%? Especially for a new player.

One could even specify a little bit more and say for prerolled warriors/hunters since that is what the game steers a newer player towards.

One could even break it up by 10% ranges but that would get messy so I just chose 70%

So here I will ask what do you prac 1-2 times? What do you do above 70%?

I've probably muddied the water by presenting too many options.

For example.

I couldn't imagine having no ride would make for an enjoyable experience, or a weapon. ETC.

So for example

Above 70?
Hunter: Weapon, Ride, Survival, Notice, Track
Warrior: Weapon, Ride, Notice

Have a few pracs in?
Warrior: Survival

What I wonder if I should put one or 2 prac into: Swim, Search

My answers may be crap but that is what I would tell someone truly new. I wouldn't say get anything to 99%. Stop where the prac trainer starts giving you 1% on a skill.

Then go out and play. See what happens. If you get into many fights, you can decide what is working and not and maybe your weapon isn't hitting EVERY time so you go to 99%.

I see 99% as if I want to solo PK :) I am most likely wrong but I think 93% is ok starting out as I try other stuff.

When I get to the point I want to solo pk then I can get 99%bash/charge 99% weapon or 99% hide/99% bs or whatever :)
On an LS warrior or hunter you should just get lvl 7 survival/ride, 89 notice, 99 weapon/bash, 92 track for fast named track (I get this on pretty much all LS alts, others will disagree). Anything after this (shield parry, dodge, search, pick, etc.) depends on your build/goals. I always get a minimum of around 57 search though

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