what is the R8 abs chest piece advantage?

[isabel]

Am so confused, just running the abs plate numbers through and it basically shows me this for JUST the item eqed:

ob db pb abs% moves weight item
--------------------------------------------

103 14 1 44% -10mvs 15lb r8 abs plate

103 14 2 44% -5mvs 20lb murgoz

103 14 4 43% -4mvs 18lb shiner
===================================
It shows a %1 more abs than the shiner, but when you input all the basic abs and switch out shiner with the abs plate - you get 85% same as with shiner. When you input murgoz abs and switch the plate with R8 plate, you get 87% same as with murgoz.

So what is the advantage the R8 gives us above the other plates? The fact that it's lighter doesn't seem to help the db or pb or moves - it seems to make it worse in fact. Is there some thing that because it's lighter it helps with bash or so? Or is the trainer at fault?

[Fermin]

should remake it as broken and then scale back like 99% abs on it. 10 QP for an abser plate isn't nothing...but to be fair the only rank 8 weapons that seem to be in use are ABS weapons (not sure if they are better then the rare abs weapons but i would assume no...)

[Adael]

The fact that it's lighter doesn't seem to help the db or pb or moves - it seems to make it worse in fact.

They're worse because the base stats on the item in those fields is worse, not anything to do with weight.

For comparison, below are the standard/rare/r8 chest pieces for dodge, combo, and abs (the only real 'rare' abs bplate is Murgoz plate).

Dodge:

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----- Chest -----                                 | DB | PB | MV | ABS% | Weight | Keyword |
a bearskin tunic                                     9    3    2    16%     0.6   DODGEEQ 
a black shirt trimmed in lace                       10    1    4    25%     1.0   DODGEEQ
a leather cuirass                                   10    3    3    30%     1.0   DODGEEQ

Combo:

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----- Chest -----                                 | DB | PB | MV | ABS% | Weight | Keyword |
a tunic of finely-crafted chain                     -1   -2   -3    70%     5.0   HEAVYCOMBOEQ 
an ornate chainmail shirt chased with gold          -1   -6   -8    80%     5.0   HEAVYCOMBOEQ
a hauberk of steel chainmail                        -1   -5   -5    80%     5.0   HEAVYCOMBOEQ

Abs:

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----- Chest -----                                 | DB | PB | MV | ABS% | Weight | Keyword |
a shining steel breastplate                         -1  -16   -4    88%    18.0   ABSEQ
a thick, steel-plated breastplate                   -1  -18   -5    89%    20.0   ABSEQ   
an engraved steel breastplate                       -1  -20  -10    89%    15.0   ABSEQ

The r8 dodge chest is as good as the rare chest for db, better for pb, and better for abs.
The r8 combo piece is as good as the rare chest for db, barely better for pb, and as good for abs.

The r8 abs chest piece is worse than the others for pb, which means for people min-maxing bash it's worse. It's lighter, so your ob maaaaay be 1-2 higher than with the others (which could possibly offset the bash difference due to pb). And it's only as good as the rare for dmg absorption.
I think it would be nice to see the pb changed to -12, and the abs changed to 92%.

On that same note, the Murgoz bplate is overall just a worse choice than the shiner. The extra 1% absorption really doesn't do much in all honesty I bet, since dmg is only an integer and things get rounded. If someone hits you in the chest and rolls a 40 dmg, you'll take 40*0.12 = 4.8 = 4 dmg from them with a shiner, and 40*0.11 = 4.4 = 4 dmg with a Murgoz plate, or the current r8 plate.
(Granted, this is assuming fully mended and without knowing anything about how quickly they each decay, and how abs decay even works)

[Harambe]

Thanks for that analysis, Adael. Interesting stuff. Up the r8 abs plate! If anything, it should be better then the dodge and combo shirts, IMO.

[Vaen]

Rank 8 absers can issue a dark grim with 2.5 lbs added or make a whole bunch of borderline great ABS weapons into complete monsters. That's good enough. The implications of effective HPs with 92% absorption or some such is completely absurd.

[Adael]

The ability to make better weapons is irrelevant to the discussion of chest pieces, given that you can only pick one or the other. The fact that that bonus favors abs and combo weapons is a discussion in and of itself.

The chest option is nice because you can issue any of the three, so people can decide which one to use with their preferred current weapon choice. If I get a few pods and want to be stabby for a bit, I’ll issue the dodge piece, but maybe I get a maul and want to be abs for one reset.
The r8 abs piece is just blatantly worse than the other abs chest pieces though, and the abs on it should be adjusted to make it competitive.

92% was admittedly pulled out of a hat, but at that level of absorption rounding probably mitigates/nullifies the difference between the abs chest pieces for all except the highest dmg rolls. Which is a great regime to make a piece that sticks out as better than its counterparts. Obviously even just bumping it up to 90% would be better than the current

[Carter]

Couldn't say what needs changed with that, but I would have been very disappointed to make R8 and discover this.

[isabel]

Rank 8 absers can issue a dark grim with 2.5 lbs added or make a whole bunch of borderline great ABS weapons into complete monsters. That's good enough. The implications of effective HPs with 92% absorption or some such is completely absurd.

I had thought the abs plate would be a slight improvement on the shiner - something like say 89% (similar to whatever the unique abs does).

Regarding abs weapons - there are three ways they could have been upped, namely OB, damage, and bash. There is no change in damage (good obviously), and the 5 OB is too slight to make a difference (I ran the numbers through the melee calculator for high ob weapons like fblades, and it doesn't change anything much). So the real bonus looks to be the ability to add weight and improve bash.

However, here is the thing -

1) Your bash on buffed dg axe only begins to improve vs 125 and above DB (for clubs it's 129 and above). Rest of the time you are already maxed out on the bash so the 15 qp weapon you issue is going to do exactly what your regular dg axe does.
2) Your bash on buffed dg axe above and during those figures is still WORSE than regular mallet bash.

So firstly if you actually want the good bashing weapon, you wouldn't go with the dg axe. You would stay clubs. Secondly, while you have a fantastic bash weapon against the best defensive kit, you are playing exactly the same kit for the rest of the time. For 15 qps, for a very situational bonus, I don't know that it is worthwhile. Not to understate how powerful that is - in fact too powerful, but that is literally the ONLY thing - it's kind of like malf vs tower channies but base weapon for the rest of the time. In theory that sounds good, but in actual practice compare how often I would run into abs trolls and combo fades/rogues vs say Nevaeh or someone? (Because while there are dodgers, they are already going to be lose toe to toe to mallet bash - so literally this is a very specific kick-in for a very specific super-top-end kit)

In contrast, if you get a plate that buffs your abs slightly, then that is an actual bonus in every fight you're in.

[Aloisa]

In contrast, if you get a plate that buffs your abs slightly, then that is an actual bonus in every fight you're in.

This seems to get to the heart of the problem.

[antoine]

Just be cool and go with the DBF like Saif did and slay all!