So had my first real PK today, and found it raised a few questions.
"The fighting is too thick and you cannot enter the fray!"
How do you get around this (also had it come up while smobbing)? Is it simply you're forced to wait for someone to flee out so it opens up a position in the brawl? Or is there another way around it?
Can you still target someone in the fight with say -bashing even though it won't let you in to melee?
What about throwing weapons?
Also curious about what methods people use to memorize northern zones (or zones south of blight from a DS perspective). In a group where you're not the leader, things go past way too fast for me to get much of an impression of where we are.
Do you just keep repeatedly PK'ing in there and hope things eventually stick?
Or am I missing something more obvious?
North PK
Re: North PK
Welcome to pk, stick with it! The learning curve is steep and brutal, dont get disheartened.
The message you are referring to is what we call "max engage", which means that the target you are trying to hit (engage on) has already been engaged by a maximum number of other people/mobs.
Standard max engage is 4, but depending on equipment of the target, equipment of the attacker and the room specifics may be as low as 2. Also channelers can bypass max engage with weaves alltogether, so dont think you might be safe from them if you are already engaged by a maximum amount of opponents!
In regards to the zone knowledge, that is something you need to learn by doing. Maps can be helpfull, also asking experienced players during downtimes for tips, tricks and perhaps a walkthrough might be advisable. Make a trolloc, level it to atleast level 30, and re-eq in abs + club and you are atleast competetive as a character (offcourse skills will come later). Abs and clubs are easy to get on DS, even with the current low numbers.
The message you are referring to is what we call "max engage", which means that the target you are trying to hit (engage on) has already been engaged by a maximum number of other people/mobs.
Standard max engage is 4, but depending on equipment of the target, equipment of the attacker and the room specifics may be as low as 2. Also channelers can bypass max engage with weaves alltogether, so dont think you might be safe from them if you are already engaged by a maximum amount of opponents!
In regards to the zone knowledge, that is something you need to learn by doing. Maps can be helpfull, also asking experienced players during downtimes for tips, tricks and perhaps a walkthrough might be advisable. Make a trolloc, level it to atleast level 30, and re-eq in abs + club and you are atleast competetive as a character (offcourse skills will come later). Abs and clubs are easy to get on DS, even with the current low numbers.
Last edited by Razhak on Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: North PK
There is "max engage" thing which determines amount of people who are able to fit into a melee fight with certain opponent.
It is based on setups of attackers and target. There used to be certains rooms with max engage limits, but I am not certain if they still exist.
In general, abser take more space in melee and can tank more people. People with small weapons(daggers for example) take less space in melee and allow less people to fight them in melee. "Max engage" usually ranges from 2 to 3 and based on weapon/armor setups. Getting bashed allows 1 more person to get on you. When you see "The fighting is too thick and you cannot enter the fray!" it means your target have reached maximum amount of allowed opponents in melee. If this happens during smobbing try picking another target if there are any. If this happens during pk you have few options like waiting for your target to get bashed, engaging another target, going for a block. Your choice here is based on pk experience and current pk situation.
You cant start a bash against someone who have reached their limit of opponents. But if you have started a bash without engaging before they hit their melee limit, you bash still will work out of combat. You wont see message like 'you sent your opponent on the ground' but they will get stunned if your bash skill performs successfully.
Throwing weapons are very tricky... But yes, you can throw projectiles at bashed people out of combat. Check thread about projectiles for details.
Channelers can weave at people out of combat even if their target has reached limits in melee.
Best way to learn zones is to explore/pk there alone. It will take a lot of time before you become comfortable with zone knowledge and stop getting lost when you are dragged around by a leader. Try to learn zones/spams/landmarks to the point when you dont need map to navigate.
It is based on setups of attackers and target. There used to be certains rooms with max engage limits, but I am not certain if they still exist.
In general, abser take more space in melee and can tank more people. People with small weapons(daggers for example) take less space in melee and allow less people to fight them in melee. "Max engage" usually ranges from 2 to 3 and based on weapon/armor setups. Getting bashed allows 1 more person to get on you. When you see "The fighting is too thick and you cannot enter the fray!" it means your target have reached maximum amount of allowed opponents in melee. If this happens during smobbing try picking another target if there are any. If this happens during pk you have few options like waiting for your target to get bashed, engaging another target, going for a block. Your choice here is based on pk experience and current pk situation.
You cant start a bash against someone who have reached their limit of opponents. But if you have started a bash without engaging before they hit their melee limit, you bash still will work out of combat. You wont see message like 'you sent your opponent on the ground' but they will get stunned if your bash skill performs successfully.
Throwing weapons are very tricky... But yes, you can throw projectiles at bashed people out of combat. Check thread about projectiles for details.
Channelers can weave at people out of combat even if their target has reached limits in melee.
Best way to learn zones is to explore/pk there alone. It will take a lot of time before you become comfortable with zone knowledge and stop getting lost when you are dragged around by a leader. Try to learn zones/spams/landmarks to the point when you dont need map to navigate.
Re: North PK
I recently sent a guide to different northern zones to another new PKer up north, I can see if I still have them sitting around. Basically just a highlight of the different choke points and callout spots, along with some suggestions to bypassing them or how to block it. Best way as people above me have said, is just to just PK alot. Get a client that can run a map and have it open whenever you Pk so you can keep looking at it to figure out zone layout. At some point you get comfortable enough to not look at it much, but can still be helpful in zones you aren't too strong in.
Making a lowlevel trolloc to just go through the northern zones(blight/gap etc) is also a good way to do it, there's generally a couple people on DS so if you ask nicely and they aren't afk they could likely take you through the zones, explaining the chokepoints/call outs.
Making a lowlevel trolloc to just go through the northern zones(blight/gap etc) is also a good way to do it, there's generally a couple people on DS so if you ask nicely and they aren't afk they could likely take you through the zones, explaining the chokepoints/call outs.
Re: North PK
If you're pking and using k dark or k human, try selecting a name if there's more than one target. Look in the room and you will see who is fighting who. So you might see that Bob and Chris are fighting *Joe*, and *Joe* is fighting Bob, and *Tim* is fighting Chris. This means no one is fighting *Tim*, and k dark/human might be trying to put you on *Joe*. If you type k Tim, you'll engage him.
If you're smobbing, and are told to type k guard but receive the max engage message, you can type k 2.guard. If you've been told to k smob and can't get on, look in the room and see what it's lackeys are, and target one of those.
To get around having to look and identify a target, you can also assist other players by typing assist xxx. I have aliased this to a so if I'm not sure of the name of a target but I am following someone, I will type "a xxx" and get straight onto whatever they're fighting.
However, it may be that there isn't another target for you to fight, and you remain unengaged. If this is the case, I recommend you put notice on and keep looking in the room. If you're not engaged you are vulnerable to being stabbed or charged, so you need to be ready to respond to a new target should they arrive. You might be told to spam for another target. Be aware that spamming for a target takes a move, so if you are low moves try not to spam too fast. If you're following someone and they start to move, or you need to move, turn notice off first as it takes extra moves from you if you're not still!
Re: North PK
Adael's Mudlet map (http://wotmod.org/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=6494) helpfully has a lot of the shorthand stuff labeled, so if someone says "3e elbow" you can see "elbow" marked on the map and know "okay, 3 rooms east of that one."
But yeah some stuff you'll just pick up. It is a bit harder in group PK because it flies by super fast but you'll learn the important rooms like "orch ent" (entrance to the Orchard zone, a few rooms south of 'downer') with some time and repetition. Don't be afraid to ask where something is - people might be slow to respond if they are also in a fight but generally you'll get an answer.
This also explains most of the important rooms you might come across: http://www.wotmud.org/help/pk-terms.php
But yeah some stuff you'll just pick up. It is a bit harder in group PK because it flies by super fast but you'll learn the important rooms like "orch ent" (entrance to the Orchard zone, a few rooms south of 'downer') with some time and repetition. Don't be afraid to ask where something is - people might be slow to respond if they are also in a fight but generally you'll get an answer.
This also explains most of the important rooms you might come across: http://www.wotmud.org/help/pk-terms.php
Re: North PK
Just live in the zones for awhile and keep a notepad on the desk that has spams...
First:
You should have the loop from dusty, west to dark forest to blight, and back down gap so ingrained that you can run it with few mistakes. Leave six horses and hop from one to the next until you can do it so fast you can haggard the horses (have alias for ride 2.horse).
Second:
If you died because they chased you down it was a good death. If you died because you RAN into THEM it was a wasted life. (You will have lots of wasted lives, I did just yesterday when I autofled rig and manual fled back in). The key to this is what we call doublelining, everytime you flee you have one free move that no one can catch you. You can work out the best move from each room to 1. not run back into the group and 2. get further away. For example, you are 1n of Fal Dara, you want to get south into Fal Dara but if you flee N and hit S you just die, the correct move would be flee then west.
Learn those two skills and you will learn how to regroup and become useful to the group, then you learn how to get kills which involves a variety of tactics the most basic of which is to position yourself/group in a place where someone will repeatedly run into you and die.
Remember you are fighting people who have been at this for far too long so don't feel bad about mistakes and death.
I will give you 10,000 crowns in game if you make a map/list of your first 100 deaths, what rooms and what you did wrong.
(pretty sure first two were last night in blight and 1n FD!)
One thing we need is a way to get new players up to speed quickly on the complexities of PK so they don't feel it is an insurmountable mountain, any advice for us is appreciated.
First:
You should have the loop from dusty, west to dark forest to blight, and back down gap so ingrained that you can run it with few mistakes. Leave six horses and hop from one to the next until you can do it so fast you can haggard the horses (have alias for ride 2.horse).
Second:
If you died because they chased you down it was a good death. If you died because you RAN into THEM it was a wasted life. (You will have lots of wasted lives, I did just yesterday when I autofled rig and manual fled back in). The key to this is what we call doublelining, everytime you flee you have one free move that no one can catch you. You can work out the best move from each room to 1. not run back into the group and 2. get further away. For example, you are 1n of Fal Dara, you want to get south into Fal Dara but if you flee N and hit S you just die, the correct move would be flee then west.
Learn those two skills and you will learn how to regroup and become useful to the group, then you learn how to get kills which involves a variety of tactics the most basic of which is to position yourself/group in a place where someone will repeatedly run into you and die.
Remember you are fighting people who have been at this for far too long so don't feel bad about mistakes and death.
I will give you 10,000 crowns in game if you make a map/list of your first 100 deaths, what rooms and what you did wrong.
(pretty sure first two were last night in blight and 1n FD!)
One thing we need is a way to get new players up to speed quickly on the complexities of PK so they don't feel it is an insurmountable mountain, any advice for us is appreciated.
Re: North PK
Yep, you would be right - was blight and 1 N FD. 
Re: North PK
In thinking about this, would be useful to have explanations of things like max engage, doublelining, how to find your horse quickly in a group all mounted on similar mounts (another thing I learned yesterday), and other PK-related items put in a single post and pinned to the top of the PK forum perhaps?
I spent a lot of time reading PK logs, but all the above is impossible (to my eyes anyway) to pick out just from doing that. It would probably help newbies to PK like me a great deal.
Edit: Just wanted to add, thank you to everyone who gave advice on this thread. Looking forward now to round 2 up north!
Re: North PK
If In a group. Type group. Your horse number is in reverse order.
Person 1 horse 3
Person 2 horse 2
Person 3 horse 1
Person 1 horse 3
Person 2 horse 2
Person 3 horse 1