Arrows ruined my life

... tales of great battles, stealthy adversaries and improving your PK skills. Careful though, no whining!
Reyne
Posts: 1428
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: Arrows ruined my life

Post by Reyne » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:51 pm

Well the OP started with "Jecks is a bad person" and "mobol abuse" and "sore loser with a bow." It's unnecessarily inflammatory. If you think it's too fast then post in the bugs forum and have an imm look at it but there's no need to get all down on Jecks. Unless I'm just reading too much into it and it's friendly banter I guess? Kinda didn't seem like it given Jeck's response though.

If that entire log happened over just 2 tics then alright that seems pretty fast.

It also kind of sounds like you were surprised by the arrows, didn't know what to do (initially you thought you could just move rooms to avoid), and now you've learned to leave zone if you can't control the mobol room. I definitely didn't know that before today.
The only people who lossed out on this were the 11-12 total players who no longer had PK.
I kind of am growing to really dislike this justification for browbeating everyone into playing a narrow range of "acceptable" ways to PK, usually to the detriment of less bonused and perfectly statted characters. You don't know what would have happened and plenty of PK fizzles out when both sides decide the risk isn't worth it.

granit
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:30 pm

Re: Arrows ruined my life

Post by granit » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:12 pm

I used ambush the other day and I've never felt worse for stabbing someone to beaten after the talking to I got (that ended up resulting in us catching and killing that trolloc). I think the bow thing is in the same realm as ambush, incin I guess, etc. I just wish they wouldn't put things in game that everyone hates to high water and back. Why put it here if we can't use it. I don't think he did anything bad. I am interested to see his new setup though.

Reyne
Posts: 1428
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: Arrows ruined my life

Post by Reyne » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:16 pm

granit wrote: I just wish they wouldn't put things in game that everyone hates to high water and back.
This is the crux of it though for me - what people think is okay shifts constantly and everyone you talk to will say something different. Usually what they dislike coincides with what they personally just find annoying.

I've been told that even just using light heals is killing PK. Ward is killing PK - even if I have 11 con and 211 hp doesn't matter I'm killing PK if I use ward. I've been told bolt kills PK, but obviously people use it all the time. Hammer of Air kills pk because it has a 10% chance to bash. Doesn't matter that I have a seventy something statsum and I'm fighting a dreadlord who has been playing for a decade or more, or that I don't really have the pracs to have both ice and fire weaves. It's unfair to use because this time it resulted bash -> spikes -> death, nevermind that the other 9/10 times I'm the one who dies in a few rounds.

I don't even get why people hate incin. It's easy to see coming (pretty sure even non-channelers feel the heat being drawn out of the room?) and if you're afk well you're easy to kill regardless. It uses a ton of pracs and can kill the person weaving it so as an afk person you have at least the odds they'll explode themselves.

Someone gave you a talking to about ambush? I get ambushed. People use ambush.

Just let people do what they want as far as builds/strategies go. Then adapt. No reason DS couldn't have retreated, healed up, then flamed elsewhere to raid. Instead they got salty about some arrows and declared the PK dead. Nobody killed that PK except the people who went in and stopped PKing. DS didn't even die due to the arrows apparently.
Last edited by Reyne on Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zarth
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:04 pm

Re: Arrows ruined my life

Post by Zarth » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:37 pm

Kryyg is trash. He likes to ambush people in doors.

Razhak
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:43 am

Re: Arrows ruined my life

Post by Razhak » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:13 pm

Reyne,

This is not a build/strategy or whatever. If you look at the arrow mobol, it is supposed to have a target, you say it to the mob and it will shoot.

Spamming it without a target etc is making use of what is seemingly a loophole in the mobol, in which is will shoot it's last target without the proper mobolled instructions/timing.

Hence it should have been posted in bug forums, and not been used in PK in what I heard was even a triggered action if you read Halcyon's response (hence me claiming it was intended/willfull)

Pounds
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:26 pm

Re: Arrows ruined my life

Post by Pounds » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:28 pm

Reyne wrote:
granit wrote: I just wish they wouldn't put things in game that everyone hates to high water and back.
This is the crux of it though for me - what people think is okay shifts constantly and everyone you talk to will say something different. Usually what they dislike coincides with what they personally just find annoying.

I've been told that even just using light heals is killing PK. Ward is killing PK - even if I have 11 con and 211 hp doesn't matter I'm killing PK if I use ward. I've been told bolt kills PK, but obviously people use it all the time. Hammer of Air kills pk because it has a 10% chance to bash. Doesn't matter that I have a seventy something statsum and I'm fighting a dreadlord who has been playing for a decade or more, or that I don't really have the pracs to have both ice and fire weaves. It's unfair to use because this time it resulted bash -> spikes -> death, nevermind that the other 9/10 times I'm the one who dies in a few rounds.

I don't even get why people hate incin. It's easy to see coming (pretty sure even non-channelers feel the heat being drawn out of the room?) and if you're afk well you're easy to kill regardless. It uses a ton of pracs and can kill the person weaving it so as an afk person you have at least the odds they'll explode themselves.

Someone gave you a talking to about ambush? I get ambushed. People use ambush.

Just let people do what they want as far as builds/strategies go. Then adapt. No reason DS couldn't have retreated, healed up, then flamed elsewhere to raid. Instead they got salty about some arrows and declared the PK dead. Nobody killed that PK except the people who went in and stopped PKing. DS didn't even die due to the arrows apparently.
LOL okay. I don't remember the last time I saw you PK except for down south when trollocs were already outnumbered, or to sleep stab an AFK *oL.

Of course people's opinions about what is sporting will change over time. Healing is limited access for trollocs. I think there is only one dreadlord that plays actively and heals. There are others that play from time to time, but do not heal as far as I know. There is a channeler shortage on DS in my opinion. WvD I don't really care about if you are doing it on yourself. You have terrible hit points because you chose to play subpar stats. My problem is when channelers WvD an entire group. That makes it less fun for us, again, because we do not have that same access.

You cannot really complain about the low hit points or the bad practices. You settled on your stats. Plenty of other people refused to settle for subpar stats. Others played subpar stats, and got lucky with the reroll process. They had to play for many years and put in the hard work long ago. Many even spent 100k gold on a copper chit to switch their homeland. Remember, changing homeland was a new thing at that point, and it wasn't just done automatically like Vampa decided to do more recently.

I don't know how long you have been playing, but there is a history with the incinerate weave. The fact that it burns you up with all your equipment gone forever and counts as a playerkill death is enough to make anyone angry. Even worse was before there was a message when someone started to weave it. Incinerate was the revenge weave for throwaway male channelers. Lame things were done. Didn't get Justice? Lost the dice roll for the heron and that guy who you don't think deserves it won instead? Go get on your MC and incinerate that guy, watch him lose all his equipment and laugh at him for some form of messed up solace. It should just be removed from the game at this point. It is nice that it can backfire, and it is nice that it gives a message. However, based on a relatively recent log of someone trying to incinerate someone who was AFK (and ultimately failing, ha!) people are still using it for this reason although rarely. The biggest problem I have with incinerate is that Taim still does it. I was heading south to meet a raid party with Conejita and we walked through Taim's room. He insta-aggroed her and incinerated her. She died instantly, it ticked. Lost all her equipment and went to Circle with 15 minutes of time because it counts as a pkill RIP. I looked over across the room at her and apologized so much. There wasn't much I could do, as it was the randomness of when I picked to move, but there should not be what amounts to wizkills like that in any game. I understand if you want to load a heron on Shaidar and make him wizkill any fade or dreadlord that tries to attack him for it, but you shouldn't have to worry about walking into a room and dying instantly to a mob or person except for an actual deathtrap room. Incinerate should be removed from Taim at least. Give him something different to spice it up, maybe we can hit him for the Plotting Fade quests without Foxhead medallion then.

Ambush is and always was lame. It's almost always only used in situations where the ambusher's side outnumbers the ambushee's side by an enormous amount. They are able to set up the ambush because they are not needed to help in the pk. It should just be removed from the game. The risk versus reward is stupid. The only chance you could lose with it in if a big DS group walks in and bashed you because you stabbed or missed. However, like I said, the only reason people ever ambushed is because they vastly outnumber the opponents and they can spare the men to set up the ambush.

The arrow thing is annoying because as Halcyon said, there were triggers involved and spamming of the words to shoot them as fast as the mobol would allow. It just isn't very sporting, and it's lame because no one can really do anything to him to counter it. Personally, I think triggers for pk are bullcrap and should be banned. I understand scripts to make it easier to read tracks, but some trigger that will figure out when exactly to bash someone so they beat you every time, or chase you room to room, are a load of bull. Sure, some of them might be counterable by figuring out ways to exploit the triggers, but I would rather not do that. It is less fun to me to figure out how to exploit some stupid script than to just straight up fight using our own human element of timing and decision making. At this point, it will be who has the best trigger and scripts and client and the least lag, rather than actually being good and chasing scary fast like Jaster or Zangief.

Another issue with the arrow thing was just addressed by Razhak while I was writing this post. My understand is you have to target someone each time, but apparently Jecks discovered that this is not the case. It may have been an oversight in the mobol, or it may not have been. Someone should post on bugs to find out, instead of potentially abusing it. Staff responds pretty quickly to those questions.

As much as I hate his setups, I can't dislike the player; Jecks is being a stand-up guy by switching to some other setup. I applaud him for trying to find new and unique setups, and I think part of that is why people find it annoying. It's hard to fight something that not many people have figured a counter to as of yet, compared to more traditional setups.

Reyne
Posts: 1428
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: Arrows ruined my life

Post by Reyne » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:36 pm

Pounds wrote: LOL okay. I don't remember the last time I saw you PK except for down south when trollocs were already outnumbered, or to sleep stab an AFK *oL.
Aight *shrug* idk what being rude gets you really.

Taim shouldn't insta channel it I agree.

Scripts can be really annoying.

The stats thing wasn't a complaint it's just pointing out that things vary wildly and you can't expect everyone to 'honorably' PK toe to toe someone they know will crush them. I use WvD to make up for low hp and if that makes someone salty well sorry but is what is I'm not gimping myself for honor.

And that's fine re your opinion on WvD, but as I said I've gotten crap for it just using it on myself and no one else. Opinions vary wildly and if I restricted myself to what people say is totally fair I think I'd use 4 weaves total and be bored to tears. The point was people will complain about anything. Okay LS has heals - you have higher regen and see in the dark no?
Last edited by Reyne on Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Rig
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Location: JESUS

Re: Arrows ruined my life

Post by Rig » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:45 pm

You're all whiners. Kryyg was afraid of losing his heron that I probably would have looted. Kryyg sucks. Zarth sucks.

A Vaen in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Pounds
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:26 pm

Re: Arrows ruined my life

Post by Pounds » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:51 pm

Reyne wrote:
Pounds wrote: LOL okay. I don't remember the last time I saw you PK except for down south when trollocs were already outnumbered, or to sleep stab an AFK *oL.
Aight *shrug* idk what being rude gets you really.

Taim shouldn't insta channel it I agree.

Scripts can be really annoying.

The stats thing wasn't a complaint it's just pointing out that things vary wildly and you can't expect everyone to 'honorably' PK toe to toe someone they know will crush them.

And that's fine re your opinion on WvD, but as I said I've gotten crap for it just using it on myself and no one else. Opinions vary wildly and if I restricted myself to what people say is totally fair I think I'd use 4 weaves total and be bored to tears. The point was people will complain about anything. Okay LS has heals - you have higher regen no?

Really the whole thing here was you guys immediately started dung talking Jecks and I don't see why. Now I'm catching insults too kinda for no reason. Chill out.
Trolloc regen is not that great. We can't ride horses. We can outrun you, but you can run farther for longer because of your horses. HP regen rate isn't that much more either. Not comparable to healing and WvD. That's too bad that people complain about you WvDing yourself. You're only gaining what, effectively 50 hit points? That's still less than cap.

I can understand why you would find it rude, but those are clear facts about your own play style from my own recent observations and those of others that I trust. It may be rude, but it is the truth. I am not trying to insult you, I am just trying to show you why people aren't taking you seriously.
Rig wrote:You're all whiners. Kryyg was afraid of losing his heron that I probably would have looted. Kryyg sucks. Zarth sucks.

A Vaen in the hand is worth two in the bush.
<3 Rig
Last edited by Pounds on Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Reyne
Posts: 1428
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: Arrows ruined my life

Post by Reyne » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:55 pm

Pounds wrote: I can understand why you would find it rude, but those are clear facts about your own play style from my own recent observations and those of others that I trust. It may be rude, but it is the truth. I am not trying to insult you, I am just trying to show you why people aren't taking you seriously. It makes me think of the homily the priest gave at mass last Sunday. The truth can hurt sometimes, but a lot of times lying or not saying anything is a far worse disservice.
Just doesn't have anything to do with the merits of what is being argued about so it's a shot for no reason. I'm not mad or anything no worries. I'm aware that I am bad.

It's also only the truth from your perspective. I haven't been sleep stabbing for weeks at least and I'm in the blight somewhat often lately, just apparently not when you are playing. I attacked hasp one time when he was afk in Amador and didn't even kill him and then apologized to him so... Regardless all beside the point.
Last edited by Reyne on Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:03 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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