Ouch! That really did HURT!

... tales of great battles, stealthy adversaries and improving your PK skills. Careful though, no whining!
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isabel
Posts: 1432
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: Ouch! That really did HURT!

Post by isabel » Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:58 am

I think Rark is right in THEORY but in practice for instance on my screen there's about 30 lines of text possible at any given time. When Marisue spams w w w w from alle xing it has to be stacked at least a bit because else it would be 1 dir per second which is way too slow for anyone to catchup. So

w
w
w
w

When she runs into DS group, that's 10-11 lines as she enters just for the room name, exits, mobs in room, and PCs in room.

Then as soon as melee hits, because of fleelag and failed flees, it's about 45 lines of text.

That means for the last or second to last 2 command she has 55 lines of text to deal with right on her 4-west spam, which is almost 2 pages of scrolling text, which means she wouldn't know instantly know where she fled FROM. Her best bet to reorient is to have fled into a room and spot it in the microsecond before there's another 1.5 pages of text from chasers and combat rounds + your own flee/fleelag

If you dism;flee instantly, you are still almost guaranteed to get bashed because of dism lag + fleelag.

With the instant flee, you can HOPE to get a flee out that will at least orient you (for example at the stables) so you can start controlling your d/lines, running.

Idk it's very hard vs a group of bashers + DL with 2 pages of screen scroll :p

Rark
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 10:54 am

Re: Ouch! That really did HURT!

Post by Rark » Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:52 am

Detritus wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:35 pm
Rark wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:09 am
Not the best idea to dline north or stack a west/east command after it. If you flee east, you'll get the "You can't ride in there" msg, and your stacked command would either bring you back into the group or get you to crossing, since you were alternating between w and e. If you flee south, you'll just end up back in the same room, which you did. If you get the west flee all is well, so thats a 1/4 chance of getting a good flee and depending on how you were stacking your commands a 2/4 chance of walking back into the group and a 1/4 chance of failing your flee due to dismount room, assuming olddoor was open.

Things you could have done is not dline, get your bearings and then decide what to do. If you end up 1s at the stables, great now you have a proper dline choice, do you want to dline west and go towards Dog or dline east and try to get into keep or run around eastern side, world is your oyster. But what if you get an east flee, now you're stuck between 2 dismount rooms while riding. So a decent idea is actually to dline your dism command, no real harm done and if you get aggrod 1e before you can move, at least you're dismounted and won't fail flees due to noride rooms. Even if you're getting caught you seem to have decent enough defense to parry/dodge most hits, but if you keep dlining back into the group you're running back into weaves/bashes and what not, better to get caught in adjacent rooms than make a bad dline and hope for the best flee.

Hope that helps in the future of your doublelining adventures :)
He's stacking n w when 1s of rent, 50% chance of flee, good dlines if goes through.
The double flee was bad(took back in room which always seems to do) after 3 failed mounted exits.
He's stacking " n e " after each flee from north of stables, which is 66% chance with olddoor closed, 50% with it open, either an east or a west flee works with good dlines.

At a certain point, against numbers, particularly against channies you commit and rush it to hopefully get out of a bad situation before re-enforcements arrive(as they did). There's also a certain point where the dismount lag outweighs the hope of getting a good mounted flee.
ah my apologies, skimmed through it and just saw a bunch of stacked commands, you are correct he was 1s rent and not 1s 1w, but most of what I said is still valid. Its generally a bad idea to use any dline that has a chance of bringing you into the same room. If you don't have a safe dline, don't dline a direction, 80% of the posts here could likely be avoided if people followed that. Again, better to be caught in an adjacent room and maybe take a hit or two, than re-entering the group's room with various timers rolling.

Granted I imagine the doubleflees were what did her in, not really sure if she is actually consistently doublefleeing, or if there is a bug in her pasting/editing, but that is likely the first thing to address for her.

But once she sees there are players 1w, the correct dline is south but I would likely still dline dismount, to avoid dismount lag and to avoid failing flees since there are a lot of noride rooms.

Once you're at stables you can make a proper decision of which way you want to try to go. In this case with her spamming ne ne ne, she already knows the group was split up between 1n and 1n 1e of her, so even if she by some miracle gets past the group at olddoor, she is just running into the other half 1e. Most likely 1n 1w is also blocked if the people on DS are a bit aware, but better to be caught in a 2 exit room with better dlines than in a 4-exit room where you're once again just guessing a direction if you're dismounted or where you risk failing flees due to being mounted.

Not really sure what you mean Isabel, if you mean that with lag the rooms you pass will come scrolling and it can be confusing to get your bearings if you are against a lot and get aggrod mid spam?

isabel
Posts: 1432
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: Ouch! That really did HURT!

Post by isabel » Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:14 am

Yes, she won't be able to see where she was hit because it'll be 2 pages of scroll, and if she dismounts or pauses to scroll up it would be a bash. So the best bet (practically) is to hit flee if only to try to get oriented.

Or maybe we should have a dism;flee alias to use in cities - risky but might be a microsecond faster to avoid the bash on the dism lag.

Rig
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Location: JESUS

Re: Ouch! That really did HURT!

Post by Rig » Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:19 am

Rark is correct. A lot of the times, we don’t realize that just fleeing and orientating yourself and setting up a better flee by not dlining is the best choice in those situations.

Jael
Posts: 191
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Re: Ouch! That really did HURT!

Post by Jael » Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:07 am

Pretty sure Marisue is playing from au link, realistically you can do that if you have enough hps to weather a bit to set up for the dline. When you low and getting wailed on, you just gotta put the dline in and hope for the best lol

Rark
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 10:54 am

Re: Ouch! That really did HURT!

Post by Rark » Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:57 am

isabel wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:14 am
Yes, she won't be able to see where she was hit because it'll be 2 pages of scroll, and if she dismounts or pauses to scroll up it would be a bash. So the best bet (practically) is to hit flee if only to try to get oriented.

Or maybe we should have a dism;flee alias to use in cities - risky but might be a microsecond faster to avoid the bash on the dism lag.
I think in this case you'd want a flee:dism alias and not the other way around, since you want to be disengaged when dismounting to avoid the dismount lag during combat and avoiding the timers rolling. Ie. making your dismount command your doubleline.
Jael wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:07 am
Pretty sure Marisue is playing from au link, realistically you can do that if you have enough hps to weather a bit to set up for the dline. When you low and getting wailed on, you just gotta put the dline in and hope for the best lol
I think this is a bad way of thinking, creates bad habits. Better to make the better/correct play, than to pray to RNG Gods. Not to say there aren't situations where its just a toss up, but I think that is mainly if you're in ABS and you can't afford to get caught and take the melee hits, in combo and especially dodge I'd say it is almost always better to make the correct play and rely on your defense to pull you through.

isabel
Posts: 1432
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: Ouch! That really did HURT!

Post by isabel » Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:44 am

Yeah completely agree, d/lining when you don't know your room exits or when you risk re-enter is very bad and leads to bad habits.

I do this so often from 4-exit rooms like orch ent, because I'm trying to avoid having to run through the 2n ent and further north mob aggros (like if you flee, get to 1n ent, flee and d/line e n and 1s downer bear instantly aggros you, so you flee, enter d and here I'm likely to stack a n even if it means re-enter, because the alternative is flee east, and now there is no good d-line and aggro in every adjacent room AND enough fleelag to eat a bash in any case since we are on flee # 4 at minimum now).

If I run the %es though (about to embarrass myself with some bad math here :D), let's say I'm d/lining e from orch ent to avoid being caught in any adjacent room, I have a 75% chance I will be able to walk out of there and a 25% chance I will die like a newb.

If I don't d/line, I have

1) 25% chance of being caught N E S, then 30% from there of being 1s downer (with north flee and e n d/lines), and then with bear aggro, a 30% chance there of being stuck s e downer with 50% no good d/line and also enough fleelag to be bashed

2) 25% chance of being 1e of ent, which is 4-exit room which means more ping pong. 50% chance of getting to a controllable d/line room (but these are great rooms for fleeing), 50% chance of back to ping pong, and within 2 flees enough fleelag to be bashed

3) 25% chance of E S W which is perfectly good for escaping, admittedly with incredibly obvious d/lines

4) 25% chance of N E which is reasonably good for running and should give you some headstart to be ahead even if you are pushed north and mobs aggro you. However there is every possibility of looping north lockshear or gap depending on how you stack your spams. Only risk is with 2-exit room you may fail flees.

So overall I would say that if I DONT d/line from orch ent, 50% of the flees have a 50-60% chance of getting me killed and 50% of the flees are good. So compare 25% with 50-60% of 50% :P

The flee, stack dism makes sense I think overall, but if you're not sure whether you're xing or 1w xing, then I think for safety sake if you dism right away and hit flee, then you may have a tiny buffer to get out of the bash even with dism lag. But if you hit flee at 1w xing you're 50% likely to fail anyway and get bashed. I guess depends on fleelag.

Rark
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 10:54 am

Re: Ouch! That really did HURT!

Post by Rark » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:06 pm

I think its to each their own, probably more factors playing in, is the person you're playing against going to roll their timer, then you likely do have time to move from 1n ent, are they just a slow chaser/on slow link. Do you have fleelag or do you have time to flee even if you do happen to dline back into them. But overall I think the golden rule is, don't do dlines that can get you back into group unless you want to end up on this thread, granted there's always exceptions to the rule and if you find that the RNG is good enough for you to make "bad"(in lack of a better word) dlines then all is well. For me I'd much rather be caught 1n ent/1s ent/1w ent than at the entrance itself, because those rooms have safe dlines and in the worst case scenario I'm probably only taking 3 hits, give or take, if I get caught in adjacent room, compared to jumping back into a rolling bash/weave where I'm going to take 6-8 and/or a weave or two, baring autowimpy saving me.

Not knowing where you are, should just come with paying attention to keywords/exits whatnot, granted there's some rooms where its tough to tell, like 2n 1w/1e, culhook etc.

Detritus
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:22 am

Re: Ouch! That really did HURT!

Post by Detritus » Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:14 pm

Good discussion points(even if it derails thread).

At a certain point you play the percentage plays or you're dead anyways. One of those percentage plays to weigh up is fleeing without a d-line and knowing your fleelag is getting to the point of eating a spike before you can leave room if you let them chase you to a better flee room. She also had to dline w already from olddoor risking a bash on re-entry to not be re-entering the even worse room east with dreadlords 1s rent.

Mounted in that part of fal dara low moves is quite a crap shoot, many fades/dreadlords have died riding shadow stallions there also.

Playing from new zealand(I'm sure india is just as bad) i bank on 66% odds very often when my life is not at risk. The interesting ones i like are stabbers dline hide stabbing to beat other stabbers timers.

terminus
Posts: 5
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Re: Ouch! That really did HURT!

Post by terminus » Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:58 pm

-Elodie fighting a tower group falme, cool, this might be fun.

* R HP:Scratched MV:Full >
w
k human
Plains Before Falme
The grass here has been trampled badly and no longer grows in some places. It
is clear after a moment of looking that large military units have been drilling
here. To the east are more fields, looking somewhat less trampled, and to the
south is the gate to Falme. The outer wall of Falme rises to the west. North
is impassable blocked by a steep slope into the hills north of Falme.
[ obvious exits: E S ]
Zone: Falme
A warhorse is here, stamping his feet impatiently, being ridden by you.
*Valjean* is standing here, riding a bloodstock stallion.
*Isela* is standing here, riding a warhorse.
*Relena* is standing here, riding a warhorse.
*Draz* is standing here, riding a warhorse.
A warhorse is here, stamping his feet impatiently.

* R HP:Scratched MV:Full >
You crush *Valjean*'s body.

bash

* R HP:Scratched MV:Full - Valjean: Wounded >
*Relena* leans closer to *Draz*, who now appears to be feeling better.
-=+
*Isela* slashes your right arm.
*
Draz narrates 'nods, term sorry'


*Isela* slashes your body.
*Relena* slashes your body.
*+=- -=
Your bash at *Valjean* sends him sprawling!

* R HP:Scratched MV:Full - Valjean: Wounded >
You crush *Valjean*'s right leg hard.
You crush *Isela*'s body hard.
You try to crush *Relena*, but she deflects the blow.

* R HP:Scratched MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

Your body is burned by a weakened fireball sent by *Relena*!

* R HP:Hurt MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

*Relena* slashes your body.
*Isela* slashes your right leg.
You try to crush *Valjean*, but he deflects the blow.
You crush *Isela*'s body hard.
You try to crush *Relena*, but she deflects the blow.

* R HP:Wounded MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

*Draz* sends a warhorse sprawling with a powerful bash!

* R HP:Wounded MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >
cw
f
[change mood wimpy]
Mood changed to: Wimpy
You gasp in pain as streaks of fire from *Isela* burn your body!

* R HP:Wounded MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >
*Draz* slashes a warhorse's right leg into bloody fragments!
*Relena* slashes your right arm.
*Isela* slashes your body.
You try to crush *Valjean*, but he deflects the blow.
You try to crush *Isela*, but she parries successfully.
You try to crush *Relena*, but she deflects the blow.
Your mount ought to be awake and standing first!

* R HP:Wounded MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

Elodie tells you 'you sent me tell sec before i died'

* R HP:Wounded MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >
s
No way! You're fighting for your life!

* R HP:Wounded MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

You dodge a bash from *Valjean* who loses his balance and falls!

* R HP:Wounded MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

*Draz* flows effortlessly into The Courtier Taps His Fan.
*Draz* slashes a warhorse's head into bloody fragments!
*Relena* slashes your right arm hard.
*Isela* barely slashes your left leg.
You crush *Valjean*'s body hard.
You try to crush *Isela*, but she deflects the blow.
You try to crush *Relena*, but she deflects the blow.

* R HP:Wounded MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

You gasp in pain as streaks of fire from *Isela* burn your body!

* R HP:Wounded MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

A warhorse barely tickles Draz's body with his hit.
*Relena* slashes your left arm.
*Isela* barely slashes your left hand.
You try to crush *Valjean*, but he deflects the blow.
You crush *Isela*'s body very hard.
You try to crush *Relena*, but she deflects the blow.

* R HP:Battered MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

*Draz* sends a warhorse sprawling with a powerful bash!

* R HP:Battered MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >
dism

The rain stops.

f
* R HP:Battered MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >
You stop riding him.
*Valjean* sends you sprawling with a powerful bash!

* HP:Battered MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

*Draz* slashes a warhorse's left leg into bloody fragments!
*Relena* slashes your left leg.
*Isela* slashes your left leg hard.
*Valjean* slashes your left arm.
You gasp in pain as streaks of fire from *Isela* burn your body!

* HP:Battered MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

*Valjean* looks at you.

s
* HP:Battered MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

*Draz* slashes a warhorse's body into bloody fragments!
*Valjean* slashes your body hard.

* HP:Beaten MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

You wish that your wounds would stop BLEEDING so much!

You gasp in pain as streaks of fire from *Isela* burn your body!

* HP:Beaten MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

You wish that your wounds would stop BLEEDING so much!

PANIC! You couldn't escape!
Your body is burned by a tremendous fireball sent by *Relena*!

* HP:Critical MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >

*Draz* looks at you.

* HP:Critical MV:Full - Valjean: Battered >
A warhorse barely tickles Draz's body with his hit.
*Draz* assumes Cat on Hot Sand.
*Draz* slashes a warhorse's body into bloody fragments!
A warhorse is dead! R.I.P.
Your blood freezes as you hear a warhorse's death cry.
*someone* slashes your body hard.
You are incapacitated and will slowly die, if not aided.
You are dead! Sorry...
You feel the Weave of the Wheel loosen from you.
Circle of Ravens
Somewhere in the heavens, the Circle of Ravens is the rebirthing point of
the honored dead. From here those points held by the Imperial Armies may be
reached. A fountain remains placid and still allowing for peace and rest.


Cool

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