I don't assume Lord means man. It is a gendered term. That would be like trying to argue 'boy' is gender neutral. It's not. Boy/girl are both gendered. -Kid- is gender neutral. Lord and Lady are both gendered. -Noble- is gender neutral. King and Queen are both gendered. -Monarch- is gender neutral. You can't take a term which historically has had gendered significance and just make that the default and say it's not gendered anymore. General doesn't have a feminine form. It just is. Doctor doesn't have a feminine form. It just is. Implicit bias is what makes people automatically assume that when they hear Doctor Wotmud that it must be a male - there is no reason to think that Doctor Wotmud should be a male. Historically, for nearly a thousand years, Lord has been a male term without exception. Lady has been the feminine. The fact that there are one or two cases where 'Lord' is used regardless of the person's gender doesn't make it gender neutral. Again, those are cases where the masculine form is being defaulted to - it still carries gendered connotations.Dinuc wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 4:39 amWhich is the same for Lord. You assume it is only for men, but that is your sexist/implicit bias at play.
I can use Lord for the queen or other women and that is backed up by the english language dictionary and their given and accepted titles. And the people that manage the dictionaries don't just sit down and change things on a whim. They would have a good reason for doing so.
Just because if in my town we call horses cows and cows penguins, that doesn't mean when I go on the internet I will ask for the websites I visit to change all the horses to cows...
Yes dictionaries won't magically make everyone have the same perceptions of a word. But there is a reason we use them..
The people writing dictionaries aren't trying to capture all the nuances, as I've repeatedly said and as they themselves will say, as per the quote i gave. They don't change things on a whim, but they also don't make their decisions based on how people actually use language in every day use. And that matters. A lexicographer will look at 'Lord of Mann' and say 'Oh, here's an example where the term is being used regardless of gender, so let's pop that in the dictionary. A linguist, however, who examines how language is actually used, would see that all across the English speaking population people use Lord for men and Lady for women and that these terms carry gendered connotations, dictionary be damn. Dictionaries are not the final say on anything.
And I don't think anybody here is asking that we go around and remove all instances of Lord and Lady and replace them with another term. What is being said is that 1. You shouldn't use the masculine form as a default (the specific example being 'Lord Major' being used as a rank) 2. There should be more inclusive options so that people who are not comfortable with gendered terms can choose something outside of them (This was covered by Itesh pointing out that clan honorifics (What are usually Lord and Lady, but also Mistress/Master, and General) are an all or nothing for clans and you can't set them on an individual character basis).Just because if in my town we call horses cows and cows penguins, that doesn't mean when I go on the internet I will ask for the websites I visit to change all the horses to cows...
You can keep calling your horses cows all you want, we're just asking that horses also be allowed to be called horses.