Feedback request: PK/CTF quest

[Elysia]

So the time has come to ask for feedback on yesterday's quest. Please keep it civil and constructive!

I'll share my pov first.

I spent a few weeks making these camps, the mobs, the mobol etc. I picked the Spine because it's a chokey area that also isn't accessible for Accepted. Good thing I did, because there were 3-4 Accepted around that otherwise would've skewed things even more! The no-hide is to keep stabbers from getting away with killing the CTF mob too easily. I wanted this pk quest thing to be a group effort, not a rogue fest. In a war-trial I ran several years ago that also had enemy patrols you had to kill to get points, stabbers pretty much won the day. That was not something I wanted to see again. Given that LS had 4 or more stabbers at some point, that was probably a choice that worked out well in this case.

Also, the mini-missions aren't going to move groups much if they're stabbable, so I will have to keep that in mind next time. Perhaps also load the whole smob and minions and not just the smob itself so a group going after the mini-missions will actually lose some hps, thereby increasing the risk.

The problem of too many people logging on LS... I'm not sure how I can help balance that. I can hardly tell people they can't participate because otherwise the other side will get ganked. More logged on LS during the quest too, so I pretty much spent most of the time upping the DS camp. Lately, there have been more pkers on DS, so low numbers being on DS was completely unexpected. I really hate using channeling mobs, but to at least give DS some chance against the 11-13 humans, I resorted to that.

I'd like to ask specific feedback on:

• Duration of the quest. Is 2 hours too much or ok?
• Zone choice. Too chokey, or chokey is good...? I know we all hate football fields, hence the choice for a chokey zone.
• The amount of entrances/exits to the camps. In case of skewed numbers, 3 exits may be fine, but in case of balanced numbers?
• Should the patties be upped?
• The 10 min repop time, too quick or not? I noticed that in one instance, DS hadn't been able to regen and return, allowing LS an easy kill on the patty. On the other hand, repop worked against LS a few times, although the lone mobs repopping didn't help much.
• Obviously any ideas that might help balance hugely skewed numbers are welcome!
• Anything else you can think of.

[macroth]

I think it went well.
Maybe more support mobs on the mini quests and possible roaming patrols for both side or maybe an aiel patrol roaming around.
Thanks it was fun

[Aria]

One idea I had during it that would help self-balance it.

Allow a team to use the opposite team's points to buy defensive/offensive things.

Let's say LS has more people and start racking up points real quick. 100 to 0. Now the DS has 100 points to buy mobs (1 pt), patrols (10), dreadguards (100 pts), Gate/Fade to a location, temp mob raids into opponent's base. It also allows the team control, and elements of planning and strategy.

Lead smob doesn't repop until scalp is turned in to prevent hoarding.



2 hours was a good time slot. 3 exits was reasonable. 1 exit choke would have ended up with DS/smaller group dying very fast. Chances are there is always going to be skewed number one way or the other, so might as well plan for the worse case scenario. 10 minute repop I thought was good. If it was longer, I thought there may be more of a lull in the action.

[Elysia]

I'm afraid that sort of complicated method is impossible Aria. The points are just what I tally, it would have to be automated if the other side would be able to spend in on defensive mobs etc. I doubt mobol can pull that off.

[krul]

It was a wonderful idea and with practice in execution could lead to some really promising fun. Unfortunately these things are always vulnerable to elements that are completely out of your control, like one side having good leaders or big numbers and the other not. Big numbers can be countered, good leaders less so. The two biggest issues were the camp design and the mob support. It may be interesting to note that this sort of PK quest would probably be most perfectly run purely sameside in a single large zone. With DS outnumbered our mobility was severely crippled and thus so was our information, and we had no real opportunity to even the odds.

From my work in other games I've been taught that the noose design is by far the best as the core layout for a level. 3x3 offers very little in terms of strategy and is not very interesting. The noose is basically an area with a single exit and two separate paths that converge. That's the foundation, and anything more can added on. A second, secret, exit. Doors, other passageways. You get the idea. And of course, the objective is found at the end of the noose. This layout would help solve the problem of one side being outnumbered and would also solve the issue of stabbers without making the whole zone nohide. Naturally, the zone would be tiered in difficulty. At the entrance, a weakish patty, further down, two stronger patties, at the end, an even stronger patty. Give the final patty a door so that it can be safeguarded with fewer numbers, freeing other players up to leave. All patties nohide, certain rooms nochannel, etc. Then, for instance, add a spammable door somewhere, put stationary mobs in it (and/or have leadable mobs throughout the zone), and you've given the players some significant tools to work with in dominating the other side while outnumbered. If there were also a secret exit, this would prevent one side from being pinned down inside. Etc. You see how the opportunities for player interaction and strategy just go up and up.

A second thing that may help even the odds and keep things more dynamic is regularly spawning (every 3-5 minutes) chasing patties. This is part of why I say it would work better to be focused in a single large zone (not including base camps). Chasing patties would be opportunities for light skirmishing, creating distraction, breaking out of a pin, and so on. These patties would be stabbable, meaning those who only enjoy playing rogues do not feel entirely left out or useless. Only one patty for each side would be able to be in the zone at a time. If you used the right mobs, ones that already have good tracking, MOBOL would hopefully not be a real problem. And of course your mini-missions would then present the opportunity of taking people out of that into a neutral area.

Coincidentally, this could also be something you could work your minions on, since we really do not need any new permanent zones in the MUD. The creation of a large Stedding zone as the setting for a future PK/CTF quest, for instance.

Those are my initial thoughts, hopefully not completely useless to you. Thanks for putting all the work into this. I think it could be wonderful as a regular feature a few times a year and I'm sure you'll get quite efficient at it.

[Elysia]

Thanks Krul, that's helpful. I may not be able to include everything, but you have given me some ideas.

[ALora]

Here is a suggestion :

Make the quest in a closed area. Always send a balance of players inside. 1 light for 1 dark.

If more players froM LS are waiting - if they die they are in "line" to get back in as the next one comes in. DS players however all stay since they have less players.

Just a suggestion. Would make it more fun. Large MMORPGS have a similar system in place for Capture the flags games and such.

[Rark]

Well that doesn't really balance much, since there is such a huge difference in what class you are. So for example if it's 10 on each side, but LS has 5 sedai/warder pairs, or if DS has 2 dreadlords/3 fades and 5 master trollocs and LS is just regular characters. Difficult to balance in that way, then you'd have to also look at what classses are on etc. Anyway what I've always liked about wotmud is that it isn't "balanced", though I guess for quests and such it is always annoying if the opposing side has 3x the numbers, but so it goes.

[Elysia]

Yeah, what Rark said. And also, if I announce an event it would be lame if people showed up, possibly even altered their RL schedule, and I would then have to say "sorry, only 5 DS on, I can't let you join". That would be fine if I set it up on the fly, but as a pre-announced event...

[dean]

I enjoyed it. More even numbers would of course be the only thing I would of changed.