Revamping the Warranting Rules

[Ashlee]

This has been brought up recently and Elysia expressed some interest in it being looked into. PLEASE keep things civil. Don't make references to IC or in-game issues. Use a hypothetical to outline a potential flaw in the rule(s); and don't just frame IC/in-game issues as a hypothetical. This thread is being made for the sole purpose of fixing the warranting rules, it is not being offered as a forum for people to air grievances.

Currently, the warranting rules are:

1. You can warrant for any attack on your person anywhere in the mud, provided this doesn't breach any of the following rules.
2. You can warrant for any breaking of your nation's laws, provided these are in line with these rules.
3. You can warrant for witnessing a warrant being served on your clan's territory, provided this does not entail a wanted clanmate being hunted (this is in line with 4).
4. You cannot warrant for a player serving a warrant upon you.
5. You cannot warrant for a player assisting a fellow member of their clan when you are trying to serve a warrant upon the wanted.
6. You cannot warrant for clan affiliation or abilities, except for men who can channel.
7. If someone appeals a warrant you must a) post to the entire clan not to hunt that person due to an appeal and b) resolve it within seven (7) days or c) the clan Watcher will make the final binding ruling.
8. If someone submits and you accept the submission, you must pardon.


Players are expressly reminded that an appeal is not the same as a request for a pardon. As such, the time restrictions on requesting a pardon (and accompanying quest), do not apply.

You must warrant before attacking someone, except on the rare occasion that you can only save someone's life by attacking on the spot. In the same vein you can't use mobs to warrant for you.

Using banishment to banish someone for a month, or indefinitely, or whatever length of time is essentially not very different than warranting someone. I think that's a system that could be looked into for sure! The warranting rules don't apply to it so people use it as a defacto warrant.

[Ashlee]

Reserved for late

[Maegon]

I personally feel banishment rules should be kept loose, but limited to a short time frame, such as a week. There are too many possible scenarios to cover them all perfectly, so allowing banishments some leeway, a clan has the ability to "sternly warn" someone.

I have no issues with the current warranting rules.

[pial]

A pattern has certainly emerged: that being people who have the power to warrant in fairly strategic parts of the map don't find a problem with the power they've been given or how it is used. Whereas people who have been on other end of having that power used on them don't much care for how they can be used. I wish I could post an example of a log that led up to me being warranted at one point, I think it shows exactly why anyone in a clan being able to warrant is problematic. The clan itself usually has a tendency to protect the clanmates and not side with the outsiders due to not wanting to piss off the person they work with so to speak.

[Maegon]

A pattern has certainly emerged: that being people who have the power to warrant in fairly strategic parts of the map don't find a problem with the power they've been given or how it is used. Whereas people who have been on other end of having that power used on them don't much care for how they can be used. I wish I could post an example of a log that led up to me being warranted at one point, I think it shows exactly why anyone in a clan being able to warrant is problematic. The clan itself usually has a tendency to protect the clanmates and not side with the outsiders due to not wanting to piss off the person they work with so to speak.

Please offer an actual helpful critique? What do strategic parts of the map have to do with warranting rules? They should be the same everywhere. A clan will tend to lean towards their clanmates on very close decisions, because they've grown to trust them and depend on them. It's part of being in a clan.

How do you propose to limit the "power" that is being misused or fix the "tendency to protect clanmates"?

[pial]

Warrants having to be voted on so a clan can do it in private and not have to worry about saving face (issuing pardon right after some hot potato just warranted someone) because someone got mad and issued one in haste is an example of hopefully getting past some of the issues that I've seen. The imms have asked for specifics not to be used so you'll have to get used to the vagueness I'm afraid.

[Taziar]

I do not believe the current warrant rules need to be changed, they are logical and well written in my opinion. The only time I have ever encountered a problem in game with them is either a player ignoring them or one time I had an appeal rejected that clearly would not have been if the clan watcher had followed the letter of the rules.

The rules are fine, rule abiding and enforcement just need to be followed for them to work.

Taziar

[Choen]

The rules are fine, rule abiding and enforcement just need to be followed for them to work.

[pial]

I definitely agree with the rule abiding and enforcement can be downright terrible at times.

[Neveyan]

I don't like the warranting rules but for the opposite reason stated above. I think they should be removed and clans should have their own warranting policy. I find the current rules too ooc.

I believe clans should dictate the RP of their lands. If a clan or an individual is unfair or corrupt, then this should be allowed. Just like real life. However, just like real life, there are consequences, and clans with bad reputations may suffer. It would be nice to see this kind of stuff playing out naturally in out RP ecosystem.

Only exception is OOC behaviour, which should be dealt with in the harshest manner.