Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Zerk attack from fades and gaidin shouldn't have even been brought up, remorts and masters ect all have the same bonus. Master dmg, 10 ob offensive, 15 pb defensive. A master warrior who is zerk will do the exact same amount of damage as a fade who is zerk.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Yeah.. please don't lower ob on sblades. That just makes us worse against combo and doesn't address the minor damage issue. It'd be nice if dirks had a little more pb.Elysia wrote:Given all the above, I think sblades should generally remain as they are.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
You guys successfully derailed this topic to be about fade bonuses. Good job. Let's keep on that tangent for a bit though.
This is coming from someone who lost IN BLIGHT yesterday, the uber bonused BLIGHT, vs 6-7 humans even though we had a super-duper fade with a rare weapon, an overpowered dreadlord in a full set and 2-3 trolls. All eqed and reasonably knowledgeable. Hey, I'm no Dagre, but I can hold my own. LS sported a couple of masters and 2-3 channies. That's how much of an impact channies have on pk. All of us died except for Eviscerator.
Give ds statable channies and you can take away the zerk attack from fades. That's balance for you right there. You counter one trait with another. You can call those channies Dread-ankle biters, limit their con to 13, and limit weaves to ice spikes, zing and status weaves. It's about as RP-ish as statting a random channie, leveling past 30 and all of a sudden earning the momentum of a freight train at full speed. So don't worry about them feeling out of place. They are in good company.
To prove a point, and to get easy kills, I played a channie last month. Statted a 15 16 15 channie during the summer and rolled 320hps at 40-ish. You seriously want to whine about fade attack as a balance issue with channies staring in your face?!? I wear 66% abs and have 220-230 defense. During this past month I shared a kill on a very prominent fade, spiked a bunch of trolls dead, had even more crit, and even at one point got patted on the back as some sort of prodigy for being able to hit an alias over and over while running around with arms flailing at burnt. One missed bash is all I need to take a fade out of the fight. One. How can you not base any discussion about balance around channies? Great job in hiding this glaring imbalance by running a most effective disinformation campaign. Par for the course, these days.
As long as you have statable channies in the game, channies that can weave unclanned and without rank reqs, all other things are stupid to discuss in terms of what is overpowered or not. They're not hard to play at all. Just like rogues, and chargers if you will, and anyone who says differently is basically lying or trying to impress you by making it sound harder than it is. Seriously, some people make it sound like an artform to stab or charge. How risky is it REALLY to stab someone at a patty while wearing combo? Old fades with out-of-zerk attack and gleaming greatsword and whatnot were certainly overpowered. No doubt about it. Today's fades not so much.
As far as this discussion going anywhere at all, I'm skeptic. Too many people promoting their own playstyle instead of seeing the bigger picture. What is actual balance? Balance can be power through rarity. It can be power through effort or power through difficulty. It can be giving up something to gain something else. If you want to balance weapons you need to see the bigger picture. Plenty of good suggestions have been brought up in this thread.
A balanced channie retains current skills and abilities and max outs at 13 con. Take away targetting, lower the sp pool and let me keep my 15 con and that is balance too. You giveth and you taketh away.
If you wish to talk more about how you can create balanced options of gearing you may now proceed. Even though it seems few changes will be made in the overall grand scheme of things. Just keep in mind that I see your bullshit, and will call you on it when appropriate.
This is coming from someone who lost IN BLIGHT yesterday, the uber bonused BLIGHT, vs 6-7 humans even though we had a super-duper fade with a rare weapon, an overpowered dreadlord in a full set and 2-3 trolls. All eqed and reasonably knowledgeable. Hey, I'm no Dagre, but I can hold my own. LS sported a couple of masters and 2-3 channies. That's how much of an impact channies have on pk. All of us died except for Eviscerator.
Give ds statable channies and you can take away the zerk attack from fades. That's balance for you right there. You counter one trait with another. You can call those channies Dread-ankle biters, limit their con to 13, and limit weaves to ice spikes, zing and status weaves. It's about as RP-ish as statting a random channie, leveling past 30 and all of a sudden earning the momentum of a freight train at full speed. So don't worry about them feeling out of place. They are in good company.
To prove a point, and to get easy kills, I played a channie last month. Statted a 15 16 15 channie during the summer and rolled 320hps at 40-ish. You seriously want to whine about fade attack as a balance issue with channies staring in your face?!? I wear 66% abs and have 220-230 defense. During this past month I shared a kill on a very prominent fade, spiked a bunch of trolls dead, had even more crit, and even at one point got patted on the back as some sort of prodigy for being able to hit an alias over and over while running around with arms flailing at burnt. One missed bash is all I need to take a fade out of the fight. One. How can you not base any discussion about balance around channies? Great job in hiding this glaring imbalance by running a most effective disinformation campaign. Par for the course, these days.
As long as you have statable channies in the game, channies that can weave unclanned and without rank reqs, all other things are stupid to discuss in terms of what is overpowered or not. They're not hard to play at all. Just like rogues, and chargers if you will, and anyone who says differently is basically lying or trying to impress you by making it sound harder than it is. Seriously, some people make it sound like an artform to stab or charge. How risky is it REALLY to stab someone at a patty while wearing combo? Old fades with out-of-zerk attack and gleaming greatsword and whatnot were certainly overpowered. No doubt about it. Today's fades not so much.
As far as this discussion going anywhere at all, I'm skeptic. Too many people promoting their own playstyle instead of seeing the bigger picture. What is actual balance? Balance can be power through rarity. It can be power through effort or power through difficulty. It can be giving up something to gain something else. If you want to balance weapons you need to see the bigger picture. Plenty of good suggestions have been brought up in this thread.
A balanced channie retains current skills and abilities and max outs at 13 con. Take away targetting, lower the sp pool and let me keep my 15 con and that is balance too. You giveth and you taketh away.
If you wish to talk more about how you can create balanced options of gearing you may now proceed. Even though it seems few changes will be made in the overall grand scheme of things. Just keep in mind that I see your bullshit, and will call you on it when appropriate.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
mate if you lost to 2-3 unclanned channelers blight, I think you played it wrong(not saying this was the case here, but it seems you think unclanneds in Blight are powerhouses, could be that I read it wrong). But I think you nailed it with the HPs, channelers have way way too many, being able to have 15 con as a channeler is stupid. I remember this was brought up at some point many years ago, where most of us argued for 13 con stat cap on channelers. I think 250 hps should be the maximum for channelers, maybe give Aes Sedai/dreadlords +10 hps when they shawl/remort. When you have channelers with 300+ hps one ice spike in cold weather and your opponent is down to the same hps as you - more or less, and other than him zerking on you and landing every single bash, you're going to come away on top if you just sit in room exchanging hits - I know that's not how PK works, and more skilled players will try to find a way to kill the channeler in another way.
As to the other points of fades, I think taking away offensive bonuses is the wrong way to go about it, should take away the survivability. Sneak flee, 80+ % abs in combo and so on. Zerk attack is extremely powerful, but it also results in deaths of people who probably otherwise wouldn't rip in the cases - which is always nice. Granted as someone pointed out, you need to have numbers to turn it around on the zerker, and zerk is mainly used when the situation is already favourable to your side. This could just be me, but I think in this day and age, where most active PKers know zones well, survivability needs to take a hit, not the offense. This would be coding, but if somehow zerk attack/auto track costed extra pracs for fades, it could be balanced a bit better. Ie. you'd have to prac attack/track and then additional pracs in another skill to get autotrack/zerk attack, which would mean you'd have to choose if you wanted autotrack or zerk attack, depending on your pracs of course. But again this would require coding and unlikely to happen. Maybe up the attack skill to 2/3 prac sessions for fades?
As to the other points of fades, I think taking away offensive bonuses is the wrong way to go about it, should take away the survivability. Sneak flee, 80+ % abs in combo and so on. Zerk attack is extremely powerful, but it also results in deaths of people who probably otherwise wouldn't rip in the cases - which is always nice. Granted as someone pointed out, you need to have numbers to turn it around on the zerker, and zerk is mainly used when the situation is already favourable to your side. This could just be me, but I think in this day and age, where most active PKers know zones well, survivability needs to take a hit, not the offense. This would be coding, but if somehow zerk attack/auto track costed extra pracs for fades, it could be balanced a bit better. Ie. you'd have to prac attack/track and then additional pracs in another skill to get autotrack/zerk attack, which would mean you'd have to choose if you wanted autotrack or zerk attack, depending on your pracs of course. But again this would require coding and unlikely to happen. Maybe up the attack skill to 2/3 prac sessions for fades?
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
They were all clanned. Fballs were plentiful. I worded it poorly and my point was that channies are overpowered.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
I will use Rig's argument: just double their numbers and win that way!
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Imo we have clans to counter act remorts. Gaidin, wb, ect. We just need these clans with the bonuses built for countering remorts to actually be clannable.
@Relaes we have been arguing about channies forever, but Everyone is too focused on unimportant things like zerk attack for warders ect.
@Relaes we have been arguing about channies forever, but Everyone is too focused on unimportant things like zerk attack for warders ect.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Field mend for chains with more durability loss to balance it, and give 1h longs a touch more pb for prac cost.
Delete med blades because atm it'd be a goddamn mercy to the class.
Delete med blades because atm it'd be a goddamn mercy to the class.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Locking this thread for now. I'll open a new one in 3 months.