Feedback request: the April weapons changes.

[Elysia]

@Davor: I agree that when jaggeds were rarer, they were less of a problem. Somehow, a bunch of loads were added, some of them on soloable smobs. Sometimes it's impossible to even give them away. They're good rent cash.

That said, they were downed two or three times and they serve their purpose as an ob/ low defense weapon. There's combo weapons out there that are more well rounded, have more damage or pb/bash. Compared to the whole range of weapons, they have more ob, but otherwise are not top notch. However, don't underestimate herd mentality, either. As long as there are people shouting they are too good, people will assume they're the best and use them.

Removing 2h longs isn't going to do much either, because we would go back to the situation of everyone being polearms and that being complained about, as happened in the past. Then I'd rather let people have more options rather than less.

[Davor]

The point I was making was master postures make every weapon better in the same function. Granted it might/is? a percentage but when we are talking 10-15 damage vs 15-20 damage vs 20-25 damage, the number is very low. I could be wrong and if its not a percentage and just a straight extra die or fixed number then they make every weapon an equal amount better. As for PB and OB its a fixed + number for every weapon.

Leave jaggeds, fine. Then the next thing we need to do is give a reason to practice shield parry. We have a bunch of long blades, they don't all have to give great defense because you need to use a shield. Give the brass hilted 1 or 1.5 more weight and remove some PB. Give the OCL some more damage and a slight OB bonus over brass hilted (it might already have it). Pale steel is pretty well balanced.

Make similar changes through out all one handed weapon classes. Once this is done, then start tweaking minor things based on SMOB loads etc. I don't know, its definitely a challenge to be sure.

I'm not sure I agree there is a better overall weapon compared to a jagged.

[Elysia]

Then the next thing we need to do is give a reason to practice shield parry.

That was the idea. I just didn't give them enough of an edge, which I acknowledged in the first post in this thread.

I think if I remove even more pb from brass hilted, it might as well not have any. Or I'm misremembering the numbers. It has like cc pb atm.

[Davor]

If BH has clear curve PB then its got insane PB and can afford to lose some in exchange for better bash - I don't understand what you mean by it might as well not have any? I think the BH is 12.5lbs? If you add 1.5 lbs that makes it 14 lbs. I believe jagged edged is 13.5lbs? The BH will now bash better than the jagged edged at the cost of having to practice shield parry. If my weight numbers are wrong, the point is to make the BH heavier than jagged edged slightly. If you match the OB and damage you now have a well balanced sword. Sacrifice 30 pracs for sparry and get a better bashing weapon - though I don't think they should be matched since I have already said practices aren't really a huge issue now.

Naerin - based on your scenario short blades would have an advantage. It would appear to make sense and I prac sblades on my hunters. Every other weapon class would be equal though.

[Naerin]

And honestly that scenario depends on a whole lot of numbers that I don't have access to - any number of things could be wrong with it.

[Taziar]

Without any real numbers to go off of this is all really just anecdotal...

Lower dmg on short blades.
Up parry bonus on shields themselves. (add a bunch to some heavier ones if shield weight actually factors into bash)

Taziar's uneducated 2 cents...

[Davor]

I'm against adding sparry to shields as then that makes all the uniques and herons more overpowered. In addition to also making rogues and channies get higher defense, and lets be honest, firetruck rogues and channies! :p

[Thore]

Yeah, as much as adding defense to weapons/setups that should have more defense sounds logical, I think the better direction is to lower defense on everything else, the end result of PK should be that people are dying, not running around surviving the entire time.

[Rig]

I'm against adding sparry to shields as then that makes all the uniques and herons more overpowered. In addition to also making rogues and channies get higher defense, and lets be honest, firetruck rogues and channies! :p

Agreed!

[Elysia]

A conundrum has arrived from above.

Re: sblades. If I down damage on those, that will also affect stab damage. Given how a lot of channelers now have 280+ hps and some of the more active pkers have 300+, as well as other classes rolling higher con/hps, I think it's an understatement when I say that downing stab damage is not a good idea.

I could lower the ob, but they would probably still carve through absers and most rogues already are frequently parried by comboers. I could make the dice roll cover a broader range, like at least one already has, but that could lead to frustratingly low stabs. I can't remove attack either, because then the shortblades in question wouldn't stab.

Given all the above, I think sblades should generally remain as they are.