All,
In the first week of April, we made some weapon changes. The goal being to diversify and make it so not everyone and their dog was 2h longblades.
I've played some of the changes myself and some stuff is definitely too weak, like 1h longblades.
However, I'd like to hear your opinions on the changes. For a rundown on what they entailed, see:
http://forums.wotmud.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2043
Was anything upped too much?
Is anything vastly underpowered?
Anything else that needs changing?
I just want to note again that there is nothing related to weapons changes we can do that will fix dodge or stab. There are just some things coded that will mean dodge will always get bashed eventually and why stabs will fail (or land, for that matter).
If there's anything else you wish to add, please feel free to do so.
Ely
Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
I think the short answer is: the changes had zero to no effect on weapon variations.
Personally I tried one handed clubs, one handed axes, polearms, and chains.
The new metal banded cudgel seemed nice. Bone clubs are still awful. Heavy clubs are still awful. One handed clubs need to be upped in damage, OB, and parry across the board.
One handed axes are still awful. I found no decent viable option after losing a wicked knife bladed axe.
Polearms are interesting. The barbed steel trident is pretty good. The OB is still less than most long blades and possibly the damage as well.
Chains still can't be mended in the field so they will never be an option.
Overall, the jagged warsword is still the best weapon. You save practices, have the best OB, great bash, good defense and excellent damage. No other weapon has this combination.
Short blades are still the highest damage output weapons along with some of the highest OB.
Medium blades are still non-viable.
I'm not sure what the hesitation is in bringing these weapons up to par with a jagged edged warsword. If you actually want people to use different weapons they have to be AT LEAST on par. Once you have done that, then you can go about tweaking things.
There is absolutely no reason to waste practices on shield parry when you can go two handed longs and get the best of everything. There was a point when there were players using 17 str hunters/warriors but this is a thing of the past, everyone is 18str and 19 str so two handed weapons will still give you excellent PB.
My recommendations would be to make the metal banded cudgel the best 1h club, give it 7-10 more OB, some more damage. Give the bone club 15-20 PB. Give the heavy club 20-30 OB. The bone club has poor PB and the heavy club has almost 0 PB. Thats great that the heavy club has good damage but who cares if a master is only getting 165 ob and will not tough bashed combo/dodge players. The bone club will tickle everything.
Chains can't be used until they are mendable in the field.
Savage axe needs 1lb and more OB. I don't remember it's PB.
Polearms need more damage as they all have 10-15 less OB as compared to a jagged edged...or increase their OB to be on par.
Basically there should be a jagged edged equivalent of every weapon class and those weapons that are 1handed should have a significant benefit for having to practice shield parry. In the case of clubs there is the supposed inherent "better" bash property. I have seen no evidence of this so they are still useless in my opinion.
Personally I tried one handed clubs, one handed axes, polearms, and chains.
The new metal banded cudgel seemed nice. Bone clubs are still awful. Heavy clubs are still awful. One handed clubs need to be upped in damage, OB, and parry across the board.
One handed axes are still awful. I found no decent viable option after losing a wicked knife bladed axe.
Polearms are interesting. The barbed steel trident is pretty good. The OB is still less than most long blades and possibly the damage as well.
Chains still can't be mended in the field so they will never be an option.
Overall, the jagged warsword is still the best weapon. You save practices, have the best OB, great bash, good defense and excellent damage. No other weapon has this combination.
Short blades are still the highest damage output weapons along with some of the highest OB.
Medium blades are still non-viable.
I'm not sure what the hesitation is in bringing these weapons up to par with a jagged edged warsword. If you actually want people to use different weapons they have to be AT LEAST on par. Once you have done that, then you can go about tweaking things.
There is absolutely no reason to waste practices on shield parry when you can go two handed longs and get the best of everything. There was a point when there were players using 17 str hunters/warriors but this is a thing of the past, everyone is 18str and 19 str so two handed weapons will still give you excellent PB.
My recommendations would be to make the metal banded cudgel the best 1h club, give it 7-10 more OB, some more damage. Give the bone club 15-20 PB. Give the heavy club 20-30 OB. The bone club has poor PB and the heavy club has almost 0 PB. Thats great that the heavy club has good damage but who cares if a master is only getting 165 ob and will not tough bashed combo/dodge players. The bone club will tickle everything.
Chains can't be used until they are mendable in the field.
Savage axe needs 1lb and more OB. I don't remember it's PB.
Polearms need more damage as they all have 10-15 less OB as compared to a jagged edged...or increase their OB to be on par.
Basically there should be a jagged edged equivalent of every weapon class and those weapons that are 1handed should have a significant benefit for having to practice shield parry. In the case of clubs there is the supposed inherent "better" bash property. I have seen no evidence of this so they are still useless in my opinion.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Blue steel scimitar seems flawed. Doesn't fit within medium blades as a channeler or combo weapon. Other weapons are better choices for either.
Pale steel also essentially crushes blue steel scimitar in every way.
Just nitpicking - I know meds are kind of a disaster.
If the damage testing work Hress did is accurate then you all are very methodical. Most weapons are just very similar variants of each other and people just need to pick the ideal weapon for them.
Other issues I suppose are - the enormity of not having to practice shield parry, the diversity in certain classes (ie. there's pretty great diversity in long blades), and weird little foibles like many long blades having 1or2 handed wield which Hress' damaging testing shows gives higher damage in 2 handed mode.
Pale steel also essentially crushes blue steel scimitar in every way.
Just nitpicking - I know meds are kind of a disaster.
If the damage testing work Hress did is accurate then you all are very methodical. Most weapons are just very similar variants of each other and people just need to pick the ideal weapon for them.
Other issues I suppose are - the enormity of not having to practice shield parry, the diversity in certain classes (ie. there's pretty great diversity in long blades), and weird little foibles like many long blades having 1or2 handed wield which Hress' damaging testing shows gives higher damage in 2 handed mode.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Davor hit the nail on the head. Lots got changed but it still makes no sense to not use 2h longs.
Jade is amazing, non masters will bash perfect dodge kits with it.
Scimitar and i&g are both viable options for re-eq
2h staff changes. Nope, why not just use a jade or i&g.
1h axes. Lol Nope!
1h clubs. I think I'll waste all those pracs for dung damage ob and def
Flails. Bronze scourge is perfect. Just add field mend
Tridents. Meh, use a jade.
Sblades render fencing blades pointless.
Dirks are a shitty rare, lots of rogues choose cc over them. All they offer is prac savings and awful Parry.
1h longs. "I think I'll spend 2x the pracs for less damage, bash and ob" said no one, ever
Jade is amazing, non masters will bash perfect dodge kits with it.
Scimitar and i&g are both viable options for re-eq
2h staff changes. Nope, why not just use a jade or i&g.
1h axes. Lol Nope!
1h clubs. I think I'll waste all those pracs for dung damage ob and def
Flails. Bronze scourge is perfect. Just add field mend
Tridents. Meh, use a jade.
Sblades render fencing blades pointless.
Dirks are a shitty rare, lots of rogues choose cc over them. All they offer is prac savings and awful Parry.
1h longs. "I think I'll spend 2x the pracs for less damage, bash and ob" said no one, ever
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Could people please be more specific in what they would like to see changed. Various versions of "useless" don't really help me improve things. 
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
I'd like to see 1h + shield pracced weapons have more defense, tridents have more weight and damage, and fblades have higher OB.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
I would really like to see yews damage upped a little bit, and another 1h staff with less defense but higher damage be implemented. Staves are the best weapon for fcs rp, but not worth using 2h staves unless constantly quaffing strength teas. 1h staves have good defense but takes 5 minutes to pew pew an ancient tree.
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Firimei Lang
- Posts: 1265
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:09 pm
- Location: UK
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Flails mended with a stone of some sort!
Apart for that, the changes seem well enough on what I've used.
Apart for that, the changes seem well enough on what I've used.
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
The only things that really matter to pkers is Weight and Bash. All things else are just perks in decidimg what is best.
The following are the only weapons people used back in the day.
Bone club:. Awesome bash, ok damage, crap def
Brass hilted: good bash, good damage, good def
Ring quilloned or gleamer: good dam, awesome def, bash absers
Bt: awesome damage and ob, ok def and ok bash.
V2.0 Mahog: awesome def, ok ob, ok dam, bash ok
Channies used only staves per RP.
Thieves used daggers. Rangers stabbed with pines.
Everyone else chose one of the above really since there were no repracs. Some prac setups were used to go abs/combo/dodge.
Most peole pract swords, in case by some chance in hell they got a heron.
The following are the only weapons people used back in the day.
Bone club:. Awesome bash, ok damage, crap def
Brass hilted: good bash, good damage, good def
Ring quilloned or gleamer: good dam, awesome def, bash absers
Bt: awesome damage and ob, ok def and ok bash.
V2.0 Mahog: awesome def, ok ob, ok dam, bash ok
Channies used only staves per RP.
Thieves used daggers. Rangers stabbed with pines.
Everyone else chose one of the above really since there were no repracs. Some prac setups were used to go abs/combo/dodge.
Most peole pract swords, in case by some chance in hell they got a heron.
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Paj
Re: Feedback request: the April weapons changes.
Swords were the prevailing weapon of WoT. Aside:
Bring a gulf back between the classes with respect to purpose. Clubs bash, Axes Dmg, Swords OB. Spears defensive/charge, lances offensive/charge. Staves parry. Polearms need something special, they are just there. Javelins offensive projectiles.
Medium blades, defensive weapons. Fencing blades, offensive weapons.
Staves weren't known to cut down trees, but if you're xping with a staff, then sure give them a bladed staff with higher OB at the sacrifice of PB. But we don't want new weapons and weapon changes to make every weapon class like long blades. And we don't want long blades to do what every other weapon class does.
Parrying with a club or axe. I know we have 1h axes/clubs, but 15lbs in one hand? That's not meant to parry, imo.
It was said before in so many words, why should I practice anything but long blades when I have the versatility to do anything with long blades. Bash, ok. Dmg, ok. OB, ok. Only reason to practice another weapon class is because you can get those weapons easily, you want to use charge, you're feeling ballsy to multihit, or you got a rare/unique (which later you'll regret).
Bring a gulf back between the classes with respect to purpose. Clubs bash, Axes Dmg, Swords OB. Spears defensive/charge, lances offensive/charge. Staves parry. Polearms need something special, they are just there. Javelins offensive projectiles.
Medium blades, defensive weapons. Fencing blades, offensive weapons.
Staves weren't known to cut down trees, but if you're xping with a staff, then sure give them a bladed staff with higher OB at the sacrifice of PB. But we don't want new weapons and weapon changes to make every weapon class like long blades. And we don't want long blades to do what every other weapon class does.
Parrying with a club or axe. I know we have 1h axes/clubs, but 15lbs in one hand? That's not meant to parry, imo.
It was said before in so many words, why should I practice anything but long blades when I have the versatility to do anything with long blades. Bash, ok. Dmg, ok. OB, ok. Only reason to practice another weapon class is because you can get those weapons easily, you want to use charge, you're feeling ballsy to multihit, or you got a rare/unique (which later you'll regret).