Regarding recent remort changes!

[Yeri]

Good talk.

[byrg]

I.... would like to hear smackdown's perspective on this matter. What ever happened to smackdown!?!

[Rig]

I.... would like to hear smackdown's perspective on this matter. What ever happened to smackdown!?!

I figure it'd go something like:
SMACKDOWN SMASH PUNY ROGUE, SMACKDOWN, SMACKDOWN SMACKDOWN

[Venum]

Just my two cents:

It makes sense to not let rogues fade, since fades are expected to lead. I will admit it is weird following people like Scizzor and Tempest in pk after seeing them as a rogue for years. That being said, I think they are doing a fine job leading in pk, but it is still a little weird. Going about it as a rogue seems a little cheap because the risk/reward is so high, you can just spam scalp if you got a few melee hits in in group pk etc. and boom you are up there in qps.

On the other hand, people who work hard to remort and put all that time and patience in deserve to play whatever setup they want. Leave deciding that to chosen - it's enough that a stab fade can't become chosen or whatever restrictions they decide to put on it. Furthermore, fade pracs are so good I'm sure they could practice stab as well as a bashy weapon and still lead.

[krul]

Should've done this back at the same time the reqs were loosened and made an exception only for masters who had already fulfilled the reqs, rather than current masters.

[guhadin]

SMACKDOWN SMASH PUNY TURKKY, SMACKDOWN, SMACKDOWN SMACKDOWN

FIXED THAT FOR YOU.

Anyway, it's kind of kind of silly to say that class bonuses don't come into play while leading, and that it all comes down to the player. Two very obvious ways of showing that it does is to think about 1. the same player's alts and 2. the same character in a different setup:

1. Lykan can say that he feels most OP when he's on his channies but, frankly, I'd say he's more threatening on his hunters. There are a lot of reasons for this, but a lot of it comes down to his ability to run people down on his hunters in a way that he can't on his other characters. A lot of chasing IS about prediction, but primarily in short range. After five or ten rooms, if you haven't caught the person already then you're going to waste either a lot of time or a lot of moves trying to figure out which way they went.

Mangler is the only player I can think of that might be better chasing on his characters that lack auto-track than on his hunters, but I'd say a lot of his success comes from really smart and unusual blocks rather than actually catching up to someone who has a headstart running. Lancelaut is a close second for chasing without autotrack, but he's a weirdo.

In some zones (Blight, Winding, Dusty, primarily), it is really helpful to lead on a trolloc rogue, because auto-scan lets you see more rooms quickly. But trying to run a mounted human down in, say, blands, without autotrack is pretty miserable if they know at all what they're doing. I'm definitely not as effective leading on Guhadin as I am on my hunters. There are many reasons for that, but a lot of it comes down to tracking and move management.

On a related note, Eviscerator can say that he's as threatening on his LS masters as on Eviscerator, but it's just not true (<----in honor of Troika)

2. Hress was wildly different as a leader depending on his setups. Yes, a lot comes down to indivudal choices, but it's silly to pretend that stab and charge setups don't offer incentives for making particular choices. For instance, ungrouping in the middle of PK to try to run stabs or charges, then losing when your side gets hit ungrouped, and half your group dies hagg because you just chased three zones and didn't get compelled before things started. Leaders aren't very effective when they can't stay in the same room as the rest of their group, and when they're incentivized to flee in and out a lot even at high health.

Neither one of these points means it was the right or wrong decision to not let more rogues remort, but let's not pretend that bonuses have nothing to do with being successful at leading.