Can't say I'm a huge fan of this new change for a number of reasons, some of which have been summed up by Tempest. These changes have no direct impact on me, since I've never stabbed on this character and never planned to, and my DS rogue is a master, so I guess these rules don't apply to him.
I think these rules unfairly punish a few fades that stab and also may wipe away hundreds of hours put in by certain DS rogues that aren't masters yet. I think the rule should be changed to say that any rogue currently clanned (or perhaps created) can still remort under the old system. I also think imms should offer all current stabby fades (Shzrei, Spyder and Scizzor?) a re-allocation of their stats to what they choose. Some of these fades may have picked stats for the purpose of going stab and may not have rerolls for ages to come. I think they should be able to pick new stats using their old statsums, subject to the usual caps, etc. To only offer them a reset I think is complete BS. This is the kind of stuff that makes people quit.
Also are similar rules going to be imposed on DLs and/or DFs that are trying to remort? Apologies as I've been gone for a while, but is the DF system like it was a few years ago? If so, I assume you're not going to be letting DFs that weren't proven leaders on LS remort to fades, right? Also, why should DLs be treated differently?
In general, I think these rules are a bit of an overreaction to a problem that I don't think is as huge as it was 3-6 years ago. I guess time will tell and we'll see if this creates a positive PK change.
Regarding recent remort changes!
Re: Regarding recent remort changes!
I think from what I'm reading here, and from other private conversations, that the biggest objection to this is from the players who have been running a certain character type and setup that they prefer (and are comfortable with) who have been working on that particular character for years, and now their planned-for end-game is no longer available to them. There's a level of frustration that so much time and effort has been effectively negated.
I understand what you are saying. I'm not going to try to change your mind about how you feel about it. You have been taking active, consistent steps to get what you want and that's not an opinion, that's a fact of your time, energy, and character development that doesn't change. I just want to acknowledge that I've been listening to you in the game and reading this thread, and I get it.
I would encourage those of you most affected by this to continue playing while the dust settles so we can all see the repercussions on a gameplay scale and then, perhaps, further actions might be taken.
Vivienne
I understand what you are saying. I'm not going to try to change your mind about how you feel about it. You have been taking active, consistent steps to get what you want and that's not an opinion, that's a fact of your time, energy, and character development that doesn't change. I just want to acknowledge that I've been listening to you in the game and reading this thread, and I get it.
I would encourage those of you most affected by this to continue playing while the dust settles so we can all see the repercussions on a gameplay scale and then, perhaps, further actions might be taken.
Vivienne
Re: Regarding recent remort changes!
We had a discussion on ds the other night and it's clear the playerbase is divided. I happen to be for the change but fully respect time and effort spent reaching the goal of remort and understand the frustration.
I do think the game has been lacking in this type of imm decision over the years. I enjoy the heavy handed approach to an issue that has, as some put it, been on the table for many years. It's much better than players making up our own rules and pass judgement on play styles over forums. I do hope this isn't the only decision of this magnitude as there are a good bunch of "balance" or "gameplay" issues that could use some attention.
I do think the game has been lacking in this type of imm decision over the years. I enjoy the heavy handed approach to an issue that has, as some put it, been on the table for many years. It's much better than players making up our own rules and pass judgement on play styles over forums. I do hope this isn't the only decision of this magnitude as there are a good bunch of "balance" or "gameplay" issues that could use some attention.
And arguably some of the very worst, but I see your point. As always it's not the clan, but the player.Saying they dont make good leaders is a cop out. view reaver no.1 he came from Ko'bal. Some of the best leaders came from Ko'bal.
-
Paj
Re: Regarding recent remort changes!
Oh no. Joining myrddraal is classist! Can't be rogue anymore.
Guess they can lead or leave. Or, mix up your pracs to stab (on your own time) and to lead with a real weapon(med blade/long blade) when the horde needs you.
I laughed every time a new fade came about and they were congratulated for being a new empowered leader on DS, then they went stabby. Don't get me wrong, I love the players behind the characters, but you don't achieve a clan master/remort, with the explicit guidance that you are to lead, then don't.
Not the end of the world. I am confident any Kobal can still go through the motions, prove their worth as a leader, and remort in time.
Guess they can lead or leave. Or, mix up your pracs to stab (on your own time) and to lead with a real weapon(med blade/long blade) when the horde needs you.
I laughed every time a new fade came about and they were congratulated for being a new empowered leader on DS, then they went stabby. Don't get me wrong, I love the players behind the characters, but you don't achieve a clan master/remort, with the explicit guidance that you are to lead, then don't.
Not the end of the world. I am confident any Kobal can still go through the motions, prove their worth as a leader, and remort in time.
-
Guest
Re: Regarding recent remort changes!
I think this change should of been made ages ago honestly. I have never understood why it was allowed for a General. Wait let me stop there, the keyword is GENERAL. To be sneaking around and stabbing people. Honestly even charging is just so incredibly unrpish for a Fade.
They were the leaders of trollocs. If you want to be one...wow you have to lead. It's not about what you want anymore. You sacrifice your crappy little about me skill. To gain the best character in the game. So honestly if you believe you have any footing for your argument. Your just being selfish and clearly not in tune with the game and rp. But this is a lot more on the imms and there inability to fix this before it was a problem. It's utterly baffling that it was allowed for 10+ years. There a freaking fade they don't stab...they don't charge.
Fades are the leaders in combat for the Dark Lord. Players like Bkak and Puny completely understood this... They chose rank 8 over a super overpowered and bonused char. Why? Probably because they enjoyed stabbing more so then becoming a leader. Sooooo use your brain...put 2 and 2 together and realize this shouldn't of been happening at all in the first place.
It's not about holding people back, and getting them upset blah blah. It's about something that should of never been allowed in the first place. A truly massive oversight by IMMS and IMMS alone. It just simply should of never been allowed in the first place. That being said you I don't have a fade. So I'm not sure what remorting as a rogue to fade does. Do you basically become a hunter? Or do you keep your no auto track etc.
I think maybe you should give these stab loving fades a chance to change there minds. Give them either the choice at dreadlord. Where you could probably go sleep stab and be just as stupid. (Also stupid that it'd be allowed to be stab/charge as well in my opinion) Or choose to become a rank 8 and keep your precious stab. You should of never been allowed to be stab in the first place. There is no argument here. This is all on the imms to basically be realistic with the books. And they completely failed in that regard with fades being able to do this.
The only other thing that could be done here is Grey man. And give those stabby lovers the chance to move into this class. Personally I don't see what the big hold up is. Why does everything have to be so dam hard in this game to do lol. You don't have to heap on tons of freaking pk bonus's. There a joke anyways. Make them a troll rogue basically, give them what fade moves? Because I think there pretty decent from what I've seen and had to chase dismounted fades. Give them 99% hide free. Maybe something else free prac wise. I'd say sneak but with ranger sneak and this buggy ass game they might be untrackable. A whole different annoyance and issue with the game that should be fixed. But ya...not that freaking hard to do. Base them off a fade/troll combo. Get there moves upped to fade moves, give them a free 99% prac. Make them rank 8 basically, with the nice personal chest/retool perks. There that's plenty easy and done.
They were the leaders of trollocs. If you want to be one...wow you have to lead. It's not about what you want anymore. You sacrifice your crappy little about me skill. To gain the best character in the game. So honestly if you believe you have any footing for your argument. Your just being selfish and clearly not in tune with the game and rp. But this is a lot more on the imms and there inability to fix this before it was a problem. It's utterly baffling that it was allowed for 10+ years. There a freaking fade they don't stab...they don't charge.
Fades are the leaders in combat for the Dark Lord. Players like Bkak and Puny completely understood this... They chose rank 8 over a super overpowered and bonused char. Why? Probably because they enjoyed stabbing more so then becoming a leader. Sooooo use your brain...put 2 and 2 together and realize this shouldn't of been happening at all in the first place.
It's not about holding people back, and getting them upset blah blah. It's about something that should of never been allowed in the first place. A truly massive oversight by IMMS and IMMS alone. It just simply should of never been allowed in the first place. That being said you I don't have a fade. So I'm not sure what remorting as a rogue to fade does. Do you basically become a hunter? Or do you keep your no auto track etc.
I think maybe you should give these stab loving fades a chance to change there minds. Give them either the choice at dreadlord. Where you could probably go sleep stab and be just as stupid. (Also stupid that it'd be allowed to be stab/charge as well in my opinion) Or choose to become a rank 8 and keep your precious stab. You should of never been allowed to be stab in the first place. There is no argument here. This is all on the imms to basically be realistic with the books. And they completely failed in that regard with fades being able to do this.
The only other thing that could be done here is Grey man. And give those stabby lovers the chance to move into this class. Personally I don't see what the big hold up is. Why does everything have to be so dam hard in this game to do lol. You don't have to heap on tons of freaking pk bonus's. There a joke anyways. Make them a troll rogue basically, give them what fade moves? Because I think there pretty decent from what I've seen and had to chase dismounted fades. Give them 99% hide free. Maybe something else free prac wise. I'd say sneak but with ranger sneak and this buggy ass game they might be untrackable. A whole different annoyance and issue with the game that should be fixed. But ya...not that freaking hard to do. Base them off a fade/troll combo. Get there moves upped to fade moves, give them a free 99% prac. Make them rank 8 basically, with the nice personal chest/retool perks. There that's plenty easy and done.
Re: Regarding recent remort changes!
+1 for Grey Men remort!
-
Intimadator
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 5:59 pm
Re: Regarding recent remort changes!
I don't have anything really new to add, I just thought I'd donate my 2 copper whether it was wanted or not.
I think guest above me said it pretty good. Fades are leaders. If they aren't leading groups of trollocs, they shouldn't be fades. The problem is is trying to retroactively fix something that hasn't been enforced in a long time. If I was a said stabby fade, and this suddenly came out of the blue, I would most certainly take issue with it. Literally hundreds of days could have been sunk into these players and there should be care in how to deal with them if we are now deciding to enforce the RP of the fade.
I think guest above me said it pretty good. Fades are leaders. If they aren't leading groups of trollocs, they shouldn't be fades. The problem is is trying to retroactively fix something that hasn't been enforced in a long time. If I was a said stabby fade, and this suddenly came out of the blue, I would most certainly take issue with it. Literally hundreds of days could have been sunk into these players and there should be care in how to deal with them if we are now deciding to enforce the RP of the fade.
Re: Regarding recent remort changes!
Oh, i'm fired up about this topic! I'm not going to touch on the fairness of whether the policy screws over specific players who never intended to be anything but stab. Clearly it's a slap in the face to them. I'ma focus on the role of the imms in regards to DS policy. Before I get in to it, I want to say that I appreciate the effort all you imms put in to this game and I respect you all greatly.
That being said, you do not dictate DS policy. Chosen run DS. Get the Chosen on board with your suggestions and have them implement it. If Chosen want to stop rogues from fading, they can simply stop endorsing them. If Chosen want to make a rule about how fades should be leaders and not stab, they can post a rule and enforce it. You're going to defade Spyder and Scizzor if they continue to go stab? Get real. That's bs, and I don't even like Scizzor.
Imms don't dictate rules on DS. Imm's don't tell clans they can't clan rogues and declan them because of it. Imms don't tell Ghars they can't play combo. Imms don't tell Ahf'frait they are to be terrible. These are clan policies.
DS runs fantastic. Please do not come in and try to micro-manage it to make it equally as awful as LS. Maybe focus on getting some more xp mobs on LS and that ABS mob near FD. Here is a link for some other wonderful ideas for LS. Focus on the ideas from Equitant. He had some really good ones.
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=2520&start=10
Moric the Magnificent Merchant.
That being said, you do not dictate DS policy. Chosen run DS. Get the Chosen on board with your suggestions and have them implement it. If Chosen want to stop rogues from fading, they can simply stop endorsing them. If Chosen want to make a rule about how fades should be leaders and not stab, they can post a rule and enforce it. You're going to defade Spyder and Scizzor if they continue to go stab? Get real. That's bs, and I don't even like Scizzor.
Imms don't dictate rules on DS. Imm's don't tell clans they can't clan rogues and declan them because of it. Imms don't tell Ghars they can't play combo. Imms don't tell Ahf'frait they are to be terrible. These are clan policies.
DS runs fantastic. Please do not come in and try to micro-manage it to make it equally as awful as LS. Maybe focus on getting some more xp mobs on LS and that ABS mob near FD. Here is a link for some other wonderful ideas for LS. Focus on the ideas from Equitant. He had some really good ones.
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=2520&start=10
Moric the Magnificent Merchant.
Re: Regarding recent remort changes!
Great change.
Re: Regarding recent remort changes!
The whole argument that rogues make shitty fades cause they cant lead is the biggest piece of crap i have ever heard on this game.
Ko'bal -
Lykan
Ghraak
Grekli
Jaster
Zangief
Myself
2 fades from Ko'bal that play stab - Hellace and Scizzor, oh wait, Scizzor dosn't always play stab. And Hellace dosn't even play.
If we are going to bring RP into this argument, okay lets do this, ALL fades in the books wielded gleaming black swords that psn'd - NEW RULE - fades must always use gleamers now, what about accepteds in pk? There are more channies in pk than rogues, so are we going to start taking the steps to culling down channies?
Oh I forgot, you guys reckon stabby fades are bad, lol check out this 99 fear, 99 charge then you can start complaining about something
Ko'bal -
Lykan
Ghraak
Grekli
Jaster
Zangief
Myself
2 fades from Ko'bal that play stab - Hellace and Scizzor, oh wait, Scizzor dosn't always play stab. And Hellace dosn't even play.
If we are going to bring RP into this argument, okay lets do this, ALL fades in the books wielded gleaming black swords that psn'd - NEW RULE - fades must always use gleamers now, what about accepteds in pk? There are more channies in pk than rogues, so are we going to start taking the steps to culling down channies?
Oh I forgot, you guys reckon stabby fades are bad, lol check out this 99 fear, 99 charge then you can start complaining about something