Wheel of Time MUD

Changing Justice back to Combo

**A big reason it was changed into abs was because of the lack of actual heavy-hitting abs weapons. That, and it was stupid strong because of how warder bonused worked.**

Reasons:
1. Abs weapons have been upped across the board
2. OB has been upped across the board
3. Combo is really not that good anymore
4. Damage has gone up across the board sans combo weapons
5. Warder Bonuses Changed
6. WvD is not applicable to others anymore

Old Justice Stats:
100 ob 30 pb 5d8 14.5lbs 1.5hand

Current Justice Stats:
100 ob 0 pb 5d8 18.2lbs 2hand

I am proposing that we change justice from its current form to:
100 OB 28 PB 5d8 14.8lbs 1hand

My thought process is essentially that justice was made abs because combo used to be incredibly powerful (we’re talking like 80% abs and 300+ defense sets), and that was really really dumb with such a strong weapon, but right now combo has hit a pretty good point where it’s kinda balanced. This also makes it so that you can’t wield justice 2h in combo for a 6d8 dice roll PLUS the damage bonus versus Shadow, because that would be bonkers.

The upping of OB across the board means that defense is not as strong, especially with most players now opting for parry more than dodge stats. This results in more overall defense breaking than before because of how parry split works and how dodge doesn’t get split. I downed the parry a little bit, which caps the parry in regular combo to around 175-180pb without postures if you focus parry. I upped the weight from the old stats because dodge bonus has gone up a lot in the recent years, so it keeps it in line bash-wise, and still makes it hard to use in a dodge set up scenario without sacrificing DB. The damage would remain the same.

I also think this helps against the prevalence of 21 str and combo polearms, as they’re the most powerful weapon right now in the game, and there is nothing hitting quite as hard or bashing as well as that outside of a bonded warder with a tmaul.

Also!! A lot of what made Justice broken as combo has been changed now, aside from what I mentioned. Like how warder bonuses work now.

I like this. I really like how fast Justice gets turned around with abs. But I don’t think combo is going to make a huge difference in that. It should get turned in with regularity still. Would be fun to change it up as well. Maybe switch to combo for now and in a few months take it back abs, then back to combo etc. Which is doable since it’s just gear change.

Yeah, good idea Rig. Only thing I’d add is maybe dropping that ob by a little and also making it full alt locked. Since it’s not at the moment and it insures it gets played

I think the parry difference with weight is good

I prefer Justice as an abs weapon; it makes for a more compelling compliment to Malf.
It would be nice if the justice glow and bonus damage was triggered only by DS remorts instead of all DS, to more accurately compliment Malf's limitations on glow/bonus damage.


If justice was to go back to 1.5h combo, it needs its damage lowered a bit in addition to weight and OB.
It also needs to be renamed to Justice, the ancient broadsword. Greatswords are too long to be wielded with one hand, and to fit within the theme, it would need to be a shorter sword.

Rig wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 03, 2026 12:25 am

Changing Justice back to Combo

**A big reason it was changed into abs was because of the lack of actual heavy-hitting abs weapons. That, and it was stupid strong because of how warder bonused worked.**

Reasons:
1. Abs weapons have been upped across the board
2. OB has been upped across the board
3. Combo is really not that good anymore
4. Damage has gone up across the board sans combo weapons
5. Warder Bonuses Changed
6. WvD is not applicable to others anymore

Old Justice Stats:
100 ob 30 pb 5d8 14.5lbs 1.5hand

Current Justice Stats:
100 ob 0 pb 5d8 18.2lbs 2hand

I am proposing that we change justice from its current form to:
100 OB 28 PB 5d8 14.8lbs 1hand

I was just sitting here thinking about this a little more and wanted to say nice idea with the parry. That lines it up to more or less match a finely axe or a wicked axe. It has a little more parry and good bit more ob but less weight, and the same damage. Obviously not counting against ds. It gives it just enough to stand out, since it is unique, but doesn’t push it into overpowered territory.

April fools!!

Your stat adjustments are a bit cray cray. I would love an uber powerful weapon that hits double hard against DS too.

I think you could still get close to 300 defense in combo. I think you would like devastate DS with this weapon in dodge and armor though I agree 2h polearms and 21 str would still probably hurt.

Maybe drop damage to heron or razor blade if it’s no longer going to be abs.

Justice has bonus damage across entirety of DS correct? Malf is only Aes Sedai?

We could balance this by making malf a 2H pole arm

matheus wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 03, 2026 6:11 am

April fools!!

Your stat adjustments are a bit cray cray. I would love an uber powerful weapon that hits double hard against DS too.

I think you could still get close to 300 defense in combo. I think you would like devastate DS with this weapon in dodge and armor though I agree 2h polearms and 21 str would still probably hurt.

Maybe drop damage to heron or razor blade if it’s no longer going to be abs.

Justice has bonus damage across entirety of DS correct? Malf is only Aes Sedai?

We could balance this by making malf a 2H pole arm

It is the same damage as heron, goofball. It’s already an uber weapon that hits double hard against DS.

The stat adjustments:
1. Make it worse defense than a heron long
2. Give it worse bash than heron long

Also removing the option to 2H makes sure there is no ridiculous amount of damage anymore than there has been anyway. 5d8 double damage is good enough.

There is almost no reason to be abs anymore
Rank 8 justice combo wolfbrothers is not what we need

Not sure what wolfbrother has to do with it. Anyone who is rank 8 and combo can use justice. Trying to turn this into a “but u just want to use justice on a r8 wolfbrother!!1!1!1!” argument is silly. Any change to any weapons of any capacity benefit every bonused clan/remorts/r8’s because of how they intrinsically work. It’s a lazy argument.

There are plenty of reasons to be abs now. Craftable tmauls, mauls, hooked swords, wildly spiked axes, pair of axes. DST and Catchpole are actually great as abs weapons too.

Anyway, the point is still the same. LS caters to a more defensive equipment play style because of how mob support and zone maluses work. In the stats above, I’m still actually downing Justice from what it was as combo originally, because we all know it’s a dumb weapon, just like malf is a dumb weapon.

Counterproposal: learn how to play abs instead. The trade isn't what you think it is -- the trade-off for Justice damage output is reduced sustain. Whatever you think about "the power of combo", now vs. then, it is far easier to survive in combo or dodge than in abs. That's not debatable.

And just because you're dumb and wrong and Justice should stay abs doesn't mean I can overlook that Isabel, as always, has pretty terrible perspective on what is or isn't specifically powerful, particularly for someone who literally crutched on broken BG damage and zerk attack for years.