Sorry. I never heard of you before and I have been here for a long time. I didn't realize.
Retroactive punitive policies
Re: Retroactive punitive policies
Re: Retroactive punitive policies
The game was absolutely created as a PK mud. You're saying the game isn't communicated about as a PK mud, but it most assuredly was created as one. As to whomever asked, it was MUME the five creators of WoTmud came from.arston wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 2:57 pmThis game is NOT created as a PK mud. literally click the wotmud logo at the top of your screen. It LISTS what types of players are welcome to this game and PK'ers make up 1/9 or 11% of that list.Kryyg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:30 amI’m all for people playing however they want and enjoy just having the who list larger.
That said, this game was created as a PK mud. I forget what MUD all the original players/immortals abandoned before making this one. The roots of this game are PK and the staff has gone above and beyond to accommodate non PKers in the last 2-5 years. Honestly, this is the result you get when you do that.
Hell, until I wrote gambler quests (currently liaison quests) in 2008, smob qps somewhere in the 10s, followed by others who wrote heralds and dailies and later a system for RP qps, you were able to get about 30 council qps a year from other sources than PK with no other possibilities for gaining qps through PVE. Your clan quests were also worth about 30 qps and supposed to be changed annually, but typically weren't. When I briefly took over Rising Sun in 2017ish, they had a set of clan quests that were from the 00s.
Re: Retroactive punitive policies
PVE is for Ric.
Don’t be like Ric
Be Not Ric
Pk
Lovingly,
Notric
Don’t be like Ric
Be Not Ric
Pk
Lovingly,
Notric
Re: Retroactive punitive policies
Still curious to the relevance of the discussion. I've been around since 2000 - 2002ish? Played all sides, have a singular master. Average pker. Mild smobber.
I play the game to have fun. When I'm not having fun i don't play the game. I take large breaks and come back. Various people know me, although I'm not some superstar. Nor do I have a large ass attention seeking mouth.
The only way I know who you are is because of various fights with rig or the immortals so... ummm guess we're even?
Oh i did have a Gleeman back in like 2000ish called Slinc that I wrote stories on and his crowning achievement was killing 2 trolls in locksheare while the fade Chaos yelled at him and the trolls while guarding the gate. He even wrote a story about that too!
Last edited by Roryn on Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Retroactive punitive policies
Wawa is open 24/7 and always ready to PK!
Last edited by wawaric on Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Retroactive punitive policies
Through all the hostility in here no one has stopped to thank Korsik for doubling daily heralds.
I don’t care what you people say I think he’s doing a fine job.
Notric,
Definitely not Korsik
I don’t care what you people say I think he’s doing a fine job.
Notric,
Definitely not Korsik
Re: Retroactive punitive policies
Over 5 (five, just five. 1, 2 ,3, 4, 5. O'''''. A handful.) characters?!
Well, this is quite the kerfuffle over very few panties in a twist.
I viciously choose to promote violence and hereby advocate that those 5 characters are summarily deleted. I want to watch people actually have something to bitch about.
Well, this is quite the kerfuffle over very few panties in a twist.
I viciously choose to promote violence and hereby advocate that those 5 characters are summarily deleted. I want to watch people actually have something to bitch about.
Re: Retroactive punitive policies
I think this thread perfectly depicts my 26ish year relationship with WOTMUD.
1. For the most part, there are those that think WOTMUD revolves around PK, and almost anything else is just inconvenient.
A: These guys should be more than allowed to enjoy mudding how they wish, but often times, they can come across as wanting to force their style upon everyone else, and / or want to frown upon other inferior play styles.
2. Then there is the group of everyone else... could like RP, PVE, crafting, whatever it may be, other than pk.
A: This group can sometimes appear to consider PK the inconvenience, wanting to just be left alone, to do whatever in WOTMUD makes them happy.
B: I don't recall this group wanting to force their playstyle upon the pk group, instead, simply wanting an equal seat at the WOTMUD table, instead of being seconded or thirded, to those of the PK group.
C: I don't see PVE players asking immortals add 250 qps worth of RP and 250 qps worth of PVE to the masters requirement.
I've seriously only played three muds, more than dabbling, and WOTMUD is the worst of the three for this playstyle divide, and I have always attributed it to the fact that PVE/crafting/non pk game mechanics are an afterthought/addon, instead of being fully intrigrated as a worthwhile playstyle. For fear, the PK faction would say, they masterd too easy, or you shouldn't be able to attain my status, if you can't kill your way there.
As was pointed out earlier, yes Ely, y'all have added tons of non-pk qps avenues, which is great, and shows staff did realize over the years PK should not be the total way to accellerate a character, but again, but all other playstyles still seam to be considered secondary/afterthoughts.
1. Starwars Mud
MUD has a tremendous setup for pk, but players actually have to sign up for a pk flag, otherwise pk with an uninterested party is mechanicly impossible. Players love it, I've met people on this mud that have played for 20+ years, and never once engaged in PK, just how they wanted it, but they have the largest merchant corperation in the entire game, and are always selling the highest end, most desired eq.
B: Here, PVE players are highly valued, b/c the mud is reset every month, and the majority of the heavy PK players have 0 interest in PVEing to get all the top tear gear. Instead, they lean on the PVE guys to go all over the galaxy, killing and retrieveing the good loot, and stock it for sale in their shops.
Let me repeat, the PK faction actually loves/appreciates/depends on the PVE faction, otherwise, most of them would never get the gear they want, because they don't want to go spend hours PVEing, to build the kit.
*It is an incredible breth of fresh air, when I play swmud, since the builders fully realize multiple playstyles exists, and both factions are seated at the table.
SWMUD I think has the balance right, other than making droids, all of the gear is out there, all the time, if a PKer wants to put in the time to kill and find all the gear they want, if suddenly all of the PVE merchants stopped performing their function in the mud, but the function/purpose for the PVEers fully exists.
2. The other is gone now, but it was advertised as one of the original RPG muds, out of England I think.
A: PK faction, again, you could choose passifism, if you didn't want to fight, or for a while you could choose duelist, where 2 duellist could agree to pk, or the normal pk choice.
Now, here, there were some WOTMUD style aggressive personality PK people, who denigrated/tried to belittle non PKers, but that was by far the minority.
B: Just like in SWMUD, the immortals realized for PVE to fully be at the table, they needed to be fully intigrated, and made an important aspect for the PKers.
Players ran shops, players made armor, made potions, as well as entire commodities, for building and expanding villages/cities.
In short, barring some basic gear, if you wanted something like a newly craftable, warhammer, you had to buy one, from someone setup to either mine ore, and smelt it, or a smelter who bought the ore from someone who mined it.
Repeat, the PVE /non-pk aspects of the game were critical to the games successful operation, instead of just being something people could or had to do, if PK was not happening.
Now this MUD, took the PVE too far, because once enough PVE people stopped mining, harvesting, smelting, mixing, there was no way for the PK people to get what they needed, eventually leading to the downfall of the game. They took it way too far, where I'd say the PVE aspect was more critical than was the PK, and that did not work, as player numbers decreased.
Summation:
If WOTMUD ever wants to get beyond the toxic PK lovers VS non-PK lovers,
1. Remember what brought most of us to WOTMUD, it was the wheel of time atmosphere and emmersion.
2. Acknowledge and validate the fact that other aspects of mudding, not PK, are ok, and more than that, make them actually important.
A: I was so excited about mining/sifting, when all that was implemented, but then I saw how again, it was made difficult/a chore, and lost total interest in it, because you became a sitting duck for PK, when you were trying to sit in known rooms, to mine/sift your buckets, all in a hope to get something.
B: when I heard of KMG, i thought we were turning a page, but then it seamed so strapped with requirements, the broker system setting prices, and almost choked, as in can't let them earn qps too fast, again, I lost interest, since it did not seam to be a fully recognized accepted playstyle.
C: We've all heard it, its ok for Cadence or Tuk to be able to pk from 0qps to 1,000, in like 4-6 weeks, but how dare a non-PKer put in the hours, to also master in such a short time... its not... fair? (Disclaimer, love you both, just were the names that came to mind
)
3. I've never understood why some of the PK faction seam so annoied if non-pkers also want to be able to earn the same perks, like mob lead, postures, etc, and then try and argue, non-pkers don't need those skills.
To me, let others play the game we love, and let them be. PVE people could care less how someone else earned their bonuses, we just feel bonuses or statuses, or flags should be equally attainable, since we are all playing the same game.
4. Finally, try and put PK and PVE players equally at the table, for considerations, changes, and ttrue benefit to WOTMUD.
Well, end the ramblings from an almost 40-year old blind mudder.
1. For the most part, there are those that think WOTMUD revolves around PK, and almost anything else is just inconvenient.
A: These guys should be more than allowed to enjoy mudding how they wish, but often times, they can come across as wanting to force their style upon everyone else, and / or want to frown upon other inferior play styles.
2. Then there is the group of everyone else... could like RP, PVE, crafting, whatever it may be, other than pk.
A: This group can sometimes appear to consider PK the inconvenience, wanting to just be left alone, to do whatever in WOTMUD makes them happy.
B: I don't recall this group wanting to force their playstyle upon the pk group, instead, simply wanting an equal seat at the WOTMUD table, instead of being seconded or thirded, to those of the PK group.
C: I don't see PVE players asking immortals add 250 qps worth of RP and 250 qps worth of PVE to the masters requirement.
I've seriously only played three muds, more than dabbling, and WOTMUD is the worst of the three for this playstyle divide, and I have always attributed it to the fact that PVE/crafting/non pk game mechanics are an afterthought/addon, instead of being fully intrigrated as a worthwhile playstyle. For fear, the PK faction would say, they masterd too easy, or you shouldn't be able to attain my status, if you can't kill your way there.
As was pointed out earlier, yes Ely, y'all have added tons of non-pk qps avenues, which is great, and shows staff did realize over the years PK should not be the total way to accellerate a character, but again, but all other playstyles still seam to be considered secondary/afterthoughts.
1. Starwars Mud
MUD has a tremendous setup for pk, but players actually have to sign up for a pk flag, otherwise pk with an uninterested party is mechanicly impossible. Players love it, I've met people on this mud that have played for 20+ years, and never once engaged in PK, just how they wanted it, but they have the largest merchant corperation in the entire game, and are always selling the highest end, most desired eq.
B: Here, PVE players are highly valued, b/c the mud is reset every month, and the majority of the heavy PK players have 0 interest in PVEing to get all the top tear gear. Instead, they lean on the PVE guys to go all over the galaxy, killing and retrieveing the good loot, and stock it for sale in their shops.
Let me repeat, the PK faction actually loves/appreciates/depends on the PVE faction, otherwise, most of them would never get the gear they want, because they don't want to go spend hours PVEing, to build the kit.
*It is an incredible breth of fresh air, when I play swmud, since the builders fully realize multiple playstyles exists, and both factions are seated at the table.
SWMUD I think has the balance right, other than making droids, all of the gear is out there, all the time, if a PKer wants to put in the time to kill and find all the gear they want, if suddenly all of the PVE merchants stopped performing their function in the mud, but the function/purpose for the PVEers fully exists.
2. The other is gone now, but it was advertised as one of the original RPG muds, out of England I think.
A: PK faction, again, you could choose passifism, if you didn't want to fight, or for a while you could choose duelist, where 2 duellist could agree to pk, or the normal pk choice.
Now, here, there were some WOTMUD style aggressive personality PK people, who denigrated/tried to belittle non PKers, but that was by far the minority.
B: Just like in SWMUD, the immortals realized for PVE to fully be at the table, they needed to be fully intigrated, and made an important aspect for the PKers.
Players ran shops, players made armor, made potions, as well as entire commodities, for building and expanding villages/cities.
In short, barring some basic gear, if you wanted something like a newly craftable, warhammer, you had to buy one, from someone setup to either mine ore, and smelt it, or a smelter who bought the ore from someone who mined it.
Repeat, the PVE /non-pk aspects of the game were critical to the games successful operation, instead of just being something people could or had to do, if PK was not happening.
Now this MUD, took the PVE too far, because once enough PVE people stopped mining, harvesting, smelting, mixing, there was no way for the PK people to get what they needed, eventually leading to the downfall of the game. They took it way too far, where I'd say the PVE aspect was more critical than was the PK, and that did not work, as player numbers decreased.
Summation:
If WOTMUD ever wants to get beyond the toxic PK lovers VS non-PK lovers,
1. Remember what brought most of us to WOTMUD, it was the wheel of time atmosphere and emmersion.
2. Acknowledge and validate the fact that other aspects of mudding, not PK, are ok, and more than that, make them actually important.
A: I was so excited about mining/sifting, when all that was implemented, but then I saw how again, it was made difficult/a chore, and lost total interest in it, because you became a sitting duck for PK, when you were trying to sit in known rooms, to mine/sift your buckets, all in a hope to get something.
B: when I heard of KMG, i thought we were turning a page, but then it seamed so strapped with requirements, the broker system setting prices, and almost choked, as in can't let them earn qps too fast, again, I lost interest, since it did not seam to be a fully recognized accepted playstyle.
C: We've all heard it, its ok for Cadence or Tuk to be able to pk from 0qps to 1,000, in like 4-6 weeks, but how dare a non-PKer put in the hours, to also master in such a short time... its not... fair? (Disclaimer, love you both, just were the names that came to mind
)3. I've never understood why some of the PK faction seam so annoied if non-pkers also want to be able to earn the same perks, like mob lead, postures, etc, and then try and argue, non-pkers don't need those skills.
To me, let others play the game we love, and let them be. PVE people could care less how someone else earned their bonuses, we just feel bonuses or statuses, or flags should be equally attainable, since we are all playing the same game.
4. Finally, try and put PK and PVE players equally at the table, for considerations, changes, and ttrue benefit to WOTMUD.
Well, end the ramblings from an almost 40-year old blind mudder.
Re: Retroactive punitive policies
Ahh, glad we got that sorted. Sorry I didn't know who you were.Roryn wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:45 pmStill curious to the relevance of the discussion. I've been around since 2000 - 2002ish? Played all sides, have a singular master. Average pker. Mild smobber.
I play the game to have fun. When I'm not having fun i don't play the game. I take large breaks and come back. Various people know me, although I'm not some superstar. Nor do I have a large ass attention seeking mouth.
The only way I know who you are is because of various fights with rig or the immortals so... ummm guess we're even?
Oh i did have a Gleeman back in like 2000ish called Slinc that I wrote stories on and his crowning achievement was killing 2 trolls in locksheare while the fade Chaos yelled at him and the trolls while guarding the gate. He even wrote a story about that too!
Last edited by Taziar on Thu Apr 25, 2024 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.