Retroactive punitive policies

[Taziar]

You are quoting the statistics in a vacuum. Lets apply that to Taziar as an example:

Taziar (probably didn't) get the scalps needed to advance to Master. (It took over a decade to master so will have to wait for the audit)

Taziar needs 19xx quest points to reach R8. None of the quest points above 1000 are from scalps. Even with the accelerated PVE qps available now in today's WoTMUD I figure it will take another 10 years for Taziar to reach R8. But, with this new policy Taziar will never get to R8 because he will not get 75 scalps in PK. Not because I can't PK, I have plenty of you on trophy across all my alts. But because I don't want to PK to advance Taziar.

So what is better for the game?

Taziar might get R8 in 10 years via PVE by playing the game and contributing to player numbers.

OR

Taziar has no possible route that he is willing to do to get R8 and decides to do something else for the next 10 years and not contribute to player numbers.

What is better for the game?

[Taziar]

And think about this.. If I'm not playing then that is 5 scalps you will never get towards your advancement as a PK'er because while I don't want to advance via PK, it still is going to find me. I am still going to PK when I need to, and I am still going to die and get scalped. You need people playing to get scalps.

Earlier I post a who list (that got deleted for some reason) it had me at the top and 10 statters underneath. That is fact. That is the game today.

Who does this policy represent? The "current" player base at that time? It doesn't.

[isabel]

Why do people care so much about making others be like them?
Why are people SO ungenerous about other people's likes and dislikes?

I empathise with the absolute yuck of being forced to do something you don't want to do. It scarred me for life with its repetition and utter insanity. Total waste of time - over and over and over again. Mob rip after xping on trees for two hours.

I was addicted to the game and I would have paid someone RL cookies to xp my char so I could play the game I loved without doing ultra boring things for even one minute. People took pity on me and xped me. That's the only way I could play.

Friends who hate pk, here is my suggestion: don't do it. Cheat. Ask your friends to take you "pking" and feed you scalps. Game the system so you can play the game you love.

This too is wotmud tradition. Imms too have done it.

PS - what I wrote reminded me of a rl story a friend told me. She married into a conservative family that wanted her to do a whole bunch of religious rituals. So she asked her mother-in-law - would you rather I do one ritual that i actually believe in and sincerely respect, or would you rather I do the 100 you all do and mean none of it in my heart? The mother-in-law actually picked the former.

Do what makes sense to you. Take a short cut for the rest. Life is, after all, the shortest and deepest cut of all.

[Roryn]

Healthier for the game is people do a little of both and understand why the immortals might want players to be well rounded. If people participated in all aspects of the game more, then you can't argue that it would be a healthier place where rarely would people not have the aspect of the game that they like out of reach.

Your example, if the player of Tazier is unwilling to either get 25% of his advancement from pvp or instead play another character that he can get full advancement on, then he's probably better off playing another game. Because he'll be happier there.

It's not the immortals job to make every single person happy. It's their job to provide a direction for the ship. Which as far as I can tell, is what they're trying to do here. I think there's a case to be made that masters can still earn pve qps up to rank 8 but can't rank until they have their 25% from pk scalps.

But i don't think that that anyone can say you can't advance your character through pve. You just can't do it soley through pve unless you're in specific, rp fitting clans.

[isabel]

I don't buy the well rounded argument. I've tried to get people to RP so much and people just say something ooc stuff and pk you instantly.

Let's take a RL scenario - some people are heterosexuals and some are homosexuals. Do they -need- to do 25% of what the other does to ..what..understand each other?

Why are we assuming that people who dislike pk havent given it a shot? We have all done everything now (on the game, not the rl example ).

The lack of friendliness or whatever between pkers and non-pkers isn't resolved by forcing people to do something. I know SO many players who transitioned from non pk to pk or the reverse and it was organic and fun for them.

Talking to arston and some others helped me understand why they dislike pk. For them it is as repetitive and predictable as xp is for me.

Look at something like soccer for instance. A lot of people find it Ultra boring - some people kicking a ball around, over and over again. They prefer figure skating.

[Harker]

Well, if anyone really wants to get back on track on this post it boils down to: Why do people protest?

This post started out as protesting a policy change, because a group of players feel marginalized by the policy.

Now in true WoTMUD fashion the people who don't like the protesters on a personal level railed against the protesters more than what was in protest, which then spiraled down into how many times can we count Rig's net positive behavior over the years.

Not a shred of empathy or open mindedness was put forth in response to the OP view point to construct meaningful dialogue, it was American style politics 101: attack the other person and not their policies.

I started this post because in no way shape or form should the staff be making retroactive policies that affect things that were already established. Reil call it what you want you appear to get hung up on the wording to the point of distraction.

Had they made this a going forward sort of thing sure why not. If you're in a regular Clan you should accidentally get 25 kills by rank 7.


It would also be fine if they could still earn PVE QPS just not be able to go from rank 7 to 8 until they met the requirements. And if they did not want to meet the requirement of 75 scalps they could still have a big QP buffer to issue equipment or pine trees or whatever else you can do with them.

Telling people who just like to log on and have 30 to 45 minutes of fun every night and get a little bit of advancement out of it that they are no longer welcome to do so is without a doubt in my mind against the house guest rule.

However when they made it retroactive they changed the terms for those already established. I see that as a big no-no.

Obviously somebody put in a lot of time and effort I would say a stupid amount of time and effort to go through everyone's audit and send the mails so they're probably going to double and triple down on their bad decision.

[isabel]

Gaidin, fades, wbs - all the bigwigs in the game can RP (razhak kryyg all the pkers have at various times posted some great rp). How many will hold off on pk to do this?

I'm a semi rounded player - I love pk and rp and hate smobbing and xp. Believe me I've tried to get people to RP while/before/after pk. It's so much more fun but alas.

We don't even need evidence. Most clans have a basic RP requirement that is routinely waived. Why is it waived? Because we just assume it's boring. Why not make that compulsory:p (not saying we should..my stand continues to be..do what is fun). See that's a cheat right there..that we look the other way for.

I remember I had made a throaway MC who had this whole RP about how the tower had kidnapped his wife, even though everything he actually said clearly indicated that he was a jerk and crazy and she has left him out of her own free will. Was a blast Rping that and then pking the Tower people. Kali and Reyne were the odd few who actually rped it out before pking (of course they got qps and I got nothing haha but it was super fun). But most just instantly attacked at the first hint of MC, clearly chasing qps!

[Taziar]

How many player kills on my Trophy list per character do I need to show you that I have a full understanding of the game? How many edits on the wiki? How many scripts do I need to publish?

I have these new requirements on Taziar to reach R8 if you use my Trophy list. I just will not farm PC scalps for it.

And it seems short sighted to me for you to dismiss any player from playing this game, especially when this new policy states you CANNOT advance without other players playing.

[Elysia]

It would also be fine if they could still earn PVE QPS just not be able to go from rank 7 to 8 until they met the requirements. And if they did not want to meet the requirement of 75 scalps they could still have a big QP buffer to issue equipment or pine trees or whatever else you can do with them.

You can still earn PVE qps to go from rank 7 to 8, just not rank to rank 8 until you've also met the rank 8 750 PK qps (total, 250 for rank 7 and an additional 500 for rank 8) requirement. Unless you do not meet the 250 PK qps requirement for rank 7, then you have to get those PK qps before PVE qps are opened up to you again.

You do not have to get rank 7, then earn another 500 PK qps before PVE qps open up to you.

There are only a handful of people who do not meet the 250 PK qps at rank 7 requirement. The owners of these 5 characters were contacted. They retain their rank and master flag, but lose the ability to earn PVE qps until they meet their rank's PK qps requirement.

[Rig]

Lol