Defender/attacker balance in clan rooms

[Eol]

Are there any prior posts from Imms that are public about clan rooms?

I feel like I know a bit about the Immortal mentality about these rooms by virtue of the fact that I have clanned characters. The more clanned characters you have the more opinions / opportunities you get.

So for example
-I "know" that Imms don't like "mobol teleport" doors. They want you to have to walk through a door that can be closed / blocked.
*This is a subject of consistency though. For example, Dragonsworn base now has a door, but you still mobol teleport to escape.

-I know that Imms don't really feel sorry for you if you let people into your base, though they might buff your area after the fact.
-I know that the tendency is to allow the attacker to be able to escape or let more people in - and I'm not bothered by that.

Player opinions remain all over the place. For example, I feel like someone always says that "the attackers shouldn't be able to escape unless they kill everything inside". I don't think that's reasonable and in fact it probably takes away the incentive to hit. You let 'em in, there needs to be a way to get out. If you don't want to die, don't let them in.

I think the mechanism for escape from a clanned room should be the same everywhere.

[Ominas]

Yeah I don’t see a problem with this log. I think all of us have killed players in clan rooms at some point.

I like what Feneon and Eol said.

But I do think maybe areas of contention such as TB’s clans in Baerlon should get a slight buff. It take a minimum of 3 or 4 players to take Baerlon. So you’re always going to have a group outside your door. Sometimes multiple times a day. I could see them getting a couple extra mobs for that. Same with KMG for similar reasons.

I know for a while the WG were killing Defenders in their clans regularly and Defenders clans got a buff. Imms can check it out and see all that’s in there. So there is precedence.

[mush]

-I "know" that Imms don't like "mobol teleport" doors. They want you to have to walk through a door that can be closed / blocked.
*This is a subject of consistency though. For example, Dragonsworn base now has a door, but you still mobol teleport to escape.

Yeah, this is the one I alluded to in my original post. It's got a door that opens and a mobol pull -- but I think anyone can actually just walk in when the door opens as a part of the mobol, with or without the pull. It's also not quite a teleport but an actual pull into the room -- i.e. if you're riding, you'll get 'you can't ride in there'. It's just weird.

There's some concessions for mobol teleport doors for some clans and rank 8 rooms (in general) but they come with a NO QUIT and/or HP check -- and like you said, the particulars aren't consistent. But that's also a function of these rooms being several years apart by different Immortals, etc. I think for most scenarios, the order of obnoxiousness for me is HP check -> NO QUIT check -> mobol door with no conditions. If I need to bail quickly or leave PVP/PVE to go AFK, I know which one I prefer.

Thiefbane does generally get the shaft as far as mob support for justice clans goes, but I think that's an issue beyond their base.

[Roberto]

One thing I'd note about the log is that it's 3 with a trolloc mob versus 1 and a human mob (that isn't always in the room because Roberto is fleeing).

You've got Lamans. K-sword. And a heron. Against a dodger.

K-sword user ends wounded/batt

I dislike the log because of how predictable it is, the narrate that starts the log and is the title of the post, and the fact that it is a scenario Roberto mentions frequently. He's in a town that he rarely controls. But, I think the log shows the potential of the Thiefbane base for PK.

If two trolls are in that and Roberto flees more, I think both die. I don't see a world where Roberto lives in this log. Three and a mob is a lot for any clan areas. Clan areas are not cityheads and are rarely close. They're only harder and less predictable to get into.

We aim for consistency. We have increased the strength of clan areas in various locations in response to things. I don't feel that the Thiefbane rooms underperformed here.

I'm sorry that I'm just giving my thoughts and not responding directly to many of the posts and discussion that came earlier.

The problem is that this is what i had intended and thought I had accomplished. I got two in, went to clan head, thought I was set up, and then next thing I know its three and a mob.

My fault for not knowing that DS could open my clan rooms. Plus someone in the know telling Sorv how to open the door when he didnt know! Betrayed.

I only used clan rooms because theres literally zero other support for me to go to in that situation. I prob should have just used my other exit, but retreating from clan room feels like an absolute loser move and I couldn't get myself to do it.

[Sorvitor]

My fault for not knowing that DS could open my clan rooms. Plus someone in the know telling Sorv how to open the door when he didnt know! Betrayed.

Believe it or not I missed the tell in the chaos and was still just running through all door opening commands I could think of.

After the log what you don’t see is me running the call say exit say open knock door s etc etc to get out

All I knew was that one of them worked. Most doors in clan areas are like this

[arston]

Player opinions remain all over the place. For example, I feel like someone always says that "the attackers shouldn't be able to escape unless they kill everything inside". I don't think that's reasonable and in fact it probably takes away the incentive to hit. You let 'em in, there needs to be a way to get out. If you don't want to die, don't let them in.

This is exactly my point, you are assuming that someone let them in on purpse, PK situations in clan door generally fall into two main types: one where someone who is actualy pk'ing spams open the door over and over trying to get people to chase in, and one where someone who is trying to avoid pk, runs into their clan base low and being chased by multiple people (and technically a third where razhak spams 1 room outside your base for 3 hours at a time).

All balance situations have been centered around the first option, and generally leave the people who are already crit/never wanted to pk stuck with a door that takes 30 seconds to open and another 30 seconds to close which lets their fastest chaser in to open the door for everyone (not referring to a specific incidence its happened at least 10 times that ive seen), which lets all the trollocs and lets the clan member unable to leave (because the door takes so long to open and you dont want to run back into a bash, so your only option is to trigger the door open, flee off, engage in the next room, and hope you can time it right to flee and dline out but 1vs3 you generally get one shot before you die and generally get the wrong flee direction even if you get the timing right, so ive never been able to get back out after going to a clan room and would have been MUCH safer going to a ctf patrol instead where i could at least run.

[mush]

I'm just enjoying seeing how long it takes clan doors to open and close increasing in every other post. We started at 10 seconds, now we're at 30 seconds, do we have anyone going for the full minute?

[Kryyg]

I would like to take it a step further. If a clan door is opened. Then it remains open until boot.

Why can’t we standardize clan areas like this with X amount of guards for everyone. Clans can then use their treasury and coffers to upgrade defenses. Which may include a one way exit for clan members only.

Seems logical.

I think after reading Roberto’s post this log is not reflective of anything. He could have left but decided to stay on ceremony. He could have left and the re entered to split up DS some. He could have not stayed so long and eaten several avoidable bashes. It does seem Thiefbane have it shitty being in a city that is CTG so maybe give them a bit more of a boost inside sounds reasonable.

[Eol]

My post above / it has not changed / removed to shorten all the quoting

This is exactly my point, you are assuming that someone let them in on purpse, PK situations in clan door generally fall into two main types: one where someone who is actualy pk'ing spams open the door over and over trying to get people to chase in, and one where someone who is trying to avoid pk, runs into their clan base low and being chased by multiple people (and technically a third where razhak spams 1 room outside your base for 3 hours at a time).

All balance situations have been centered around the first option, and generally leave the people who are already crit/never wanted to pk stuck with a door that takes 30 seconds to open and another 30 seconds to close which lets their fastest chaser in to open the door for everyone (not referring to a specific incidence its happened at least 10 times that ive seen), which lets all the trollocs and lets the clan member unable to leave (because the door takes so long to open and you dont want to run back into a bash, so your only option is to trigger the door open, flee off, engage in the next room, and hope you can time it right to flee and dline out but 1vs3 you generally get one shot before you die and generally get the wrong flee direction even if you get the timing right, so ive never been able to get back out after going to a clan room and would have been MUCH safer going to a ctf patrol instead where i could at least run.

Got Covid so I couldn't respond to you.

The only solution I can offer for you is to the "Stalker at the Door". Ask/beg the Imms to create a 2 exit mechanism for the clan room.
1. One mechanism - the basic one - is you trigger the door from the inside, the door opens, you walk out, and intruders can walk in.
2. Second mechanism - a clan member, probably with a no quit check, is able to "mobol teleport" out of the door so that the door never truly opens, but you still exit - thus preventing someone from the outside from coming in. If it doesn't have a no quit check it risks being a tool for dooring people, ie. lead them in, teleport yourself out.

No idea if the Imms would also agree to that. Obviously you can pop out in both circumstances to people outside the door, but you avoid having those people spamming their way in with the second.

Otherwise - I'm sorry. I don't think public opinion is on your side. Elysia semi-recently (within the last 5 years) gave Dragonsworn an exasperated glare when she realized Dragonsworn were teleporting into their base during the Mayene war. Whether you are avoiding or escaping or whatever - you aren't in till you are in.

[Thore]

What if bases also had both a mobol teleport (with a NO QUIT check) AND a keyword or door knock check that worked with no quit? Then it'd always for sure be the player's fault if they did in there and die. And while it would be nice if every base was balanced mob strength wise, variety is the spice of life.

Then like Kryyg said, also have exits that work both ways, for both races even. Are there one-way gate mechanics? It'd be nice if the door exit required a key (or even high pick) from the opposite race only, but I don't recall if that's possible. Puts the onus on the invader to be confident they can kill the defender and clear the key holder mob to get out (or wait out no quit while other team assembles outside). Should be some risk.