fireworks

[Rig]

Works are complicated (and terrible) but in the end both works and fade flee are crutches to reduce dying which is something we actually need more of. There's a lot of talk about ganking lately but way too much PK is simply stagnant. Zones were updated through time, but in the end players always find a way to tip the scales towards surviving. We need more death and fewer crutches.

Yea this is probably the best suggestion. The evolution of maps/client side scripts/bunch of other bonuses like sneak flee has brought the average player skill level upwards, when it comes to survival.

[Kryyg]

Well I think that is why the majority of bad PK is the players fault. No one is a newbie anymore. No one is so new they cant do anything - chase, fight etc. Its players who, despite the abundance of gear now, meaninglessness of accumulating TPs and in general just shitty sportsmanship with cheating etc, just want to win at any cost.

The attitude in general is not really new, its just we are down to such a concentrated playerbase its far more apparent now. You can't change anyone at this point so just get some enjoyment where you can! Fireworks being removed would probably be an overall good move. Or my suggestions, it would move away from a relatively free get out of jail card to a well maybe you might explode, maybe you might get out of jail, either way it will be a bit painful.

[Teveyl]

“Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.”

I've been thinking about it in these terms, from the AoW. We as players all have certain skill sets in each, and good pk will have both good strategy and tactics on each side. I look at strategy as in, thinking about what will we do next tic, or next 5 tics and tactics are what are we doing right now.

A lot of us want to play a mostly tactical game, all instinct and constant fight with enough strategy to not immediately lose. Then there are groups who want to just play a strategy game, where what they do right now doesn't matter at all because they got themselves into an superior situation, with more numbers and a better position.

As a tactical player, I like tools like fireworks.

[glynn]

I just wish game balance discussions and what is or isn't good in the game was a little less certain players knee jerk reactions to someone getting away who he thought shouldn't have. As if the Imms are supposed to change something once a day because an escape or a death didn't follow one guys personal take on what should be preordained. It's exhausting to have to make the game balance fight after every in game actual fight. How about we work on balancing the balance discussions.

[Harker]

I just wish game balance discussions and what is or isn't good in the game was a little less certain players knee jerk reactions to someone getting away who he thought shouldn't have. As if the Imms are supposed to change something once a day because an escape or a death didn't follow one guys personal take on what should be preordained. It's exhausting to have to make the game balance fight after every in game actual fight. How about we work on balancing the balance discussions.

+1

[Eol]

Players who like broken mechanisms have always argued for their retention by suggesting they were good strategy, good form, legitimate, necessary etc. Beverlae argued for years that blind shouldn't be changed or granted a counter even though every PK revolved around blinding trolls in a draught-free world. Players who used bash charge argued relentlessly there was nothing wrong with it.

"As a tactical player, I like tools like bash charge."

If tomorrow the Imms invented a Dreadlord only spelled called "Death Touch" that costs nothing and instantly killed your opponent we'd see Dreadlords arguing in some sort of reverse cyclical logic that because it now takes the entire lightside who list to kill a Dreadlord, therefore the dreadlord having the spell is in fact justified because now dreadlords have to fight the entire who list so they need it.

Players will always make terrible arguments. Its up to the Imms to make good decisions and the best decision they made was to dramatically reduce the number of works in the game a few years ago.

[Eol]

Well I think that is why the majority of bad PK is the players fault. No one is a newbie anymore. No one is so new they cant do anything - chase, fight etc. Its players who, despite the abundance of gear now, meaninglessness of accumulating TPs and in general just shitty sportsmanship with cheating etc, just want to win at any cost.

The attitude in general is not really new, its just we are down to such a concentrated playerbase its far more apparent now. You can't change anyone at this point so just get some enjoyment where you can! Fireworks being removed would probably be an overall good move. Or my suggestions, it would move away from a relatively free get out of jail card to a well maybe you might explode, maybe you might get out of jail, either way it will be a bit painful.

We can't control human behavior, but the Imms can change the underlying coding that determines how much fleelag characters develop and how often they get bashed. Tip the scales away from surviving and everyone becomes more vulnerable.

[Teveyl]

The imms have been very clear that they don't like low fleelag characters and they don't like rogues. I have no issue if they removed fireworks or at least made them weigh enough that I don't carry around 3+

Right now there are a ton of fireworks because of the xmas presents. Usually they are much harder to get. It's just like the removal of cider. I don't think anyone is dying because there aren't ciders around anymore, but we could chase further into keep or into TKD when they were around.

I don't think many people started dying because of the fleelag changes either, sure you can notice it, but any good player is going to leave PK for a tic or two as soon as they have enough fleelag to start eating bashes. It doesn't cause more dying, it just slows down the game.

[glynn]

As to the merits of todays request of imm's time...

I see a few common complaints here

1. The instigating incident here appears to be that a glass canon character on a player known to play conservatively played conservatively.

Lets just separate out the 'shame on player x for doing something with too many hps' part of the argument. Removing or reducing the effectiveness of escape mechanics is certainly not going to solve that gripe.

2. An item that is supposed to be rare is now less rare.

Yes, of course it is. It is the holidays and people got works in their presents. There were also probably a few that resulted from other rare load increases for the holidays. These are consumable and they are going to get consumed or otherwise disappear from game play. Give people a chance to experience the joy of something rare during the holidays without a knee jerk adjustment to base loads or the utility of that rare thing. It is certainly a waste of imms time to adjust the load before we return to equilibrium after the holidays.

3. Fireworks don't have a enough of a counter or a cost

Obviously there is a counter and a cost. There is a timer, so you can leave the room to avoid it, and there is a cost, a chance of blindness, deafness, damage, and an unknown final location. Also, again, it's consumed as soon as it is used. Perhaps these things need to be tweaked, but i think it is better to evaluate this in the context of the non holiday equilibrium of this consumable item. I'd add that increasing the cost will not solve what seems to be an underlying gripe here, which is that a conservative player played conservatively. If you increase the cost, conservative players are going to want to use them sooner.


My suggestion is that everybody practice some patience and play the game with the brief increase in fireworks and then evaluate once we've returned to equilibrium. There are a lot of things that need to be done to keep this game running and keep the general playerbase happy.

[arston]

As to the merits of todays request of imm's time...

I see a few common complaints here

1. The instigating incident here appears to be that a glass canon character on a player known to play conservatively played conservatively.

Lets just separate out the 'shame on player x for doing something with too many hps' part of the argument. Removing or reducing the effectiveness of escape mechanics is certainly not going to solve that gripe.

2. An item that is supposed to be rare is now less rare.

Yes, of course it is. It is the holidays and people got works in their presents. There were also probably a few that resulted from other rare load increases for the holidays. These are consumable and they are going to get consumed or otherwise disappear from game play. Give people a chance to experience the joy of something rare during the holidays without a knee jerk adjustment to base loads or the utility of that rare thing. It is certainly a waste of imms time to adjust the load before we return to equilibrium after the holidays.

3. Fireworks don't have a enough of a counter or a cost

Obviously there is a counter and a cost. There is a timer, so you can leave the room to avoid it, and there is a cost, a chance of blindness, deafness, damage, and an unknown final location. Also, again, it's consumed as soon as it is used. Perhaps these things need to be tweaked, but i think it is better to evaluate this in the context of the non holiday equilibrium of this consumable item. I'd add that increasing the cost will not solve what seems to be an underlying gripe here, which is that a conservative player played conservatively. If you increase the cost, conservative players are going to want to use them sooner.


My suggestion is that everybody practice some patience and play the game with the brief increase in fireworks and then evaluate once we've returned to equilibrium. There are a lot of things that need to be done to keep this game running and keep the general playerbase happy.

reported. Way too much logic, you arent allowed to make sense or use reasonable ideas on these threads.