Wheel of Time MUD

Is this a trigger?? Not entirely sure.


* HP:Beaten SP:Strong MV:Winded > eq
You are using:
<used as light> a crystal lightstick
<worn on finger> a gold ring
<worn on finger> a gold ring
<worn on head> a camouflaged hood
<worn around neck> a shimmering pendant of obsidian
<worn around neck> a shimmering pendant of obsidian
<worn on body> a bearskin tunic
<worn about body> a dark grey travelling cloak with silver lining
<slung on back> a backpack
<worn on arms> a set of cloth sleeves
<worn on hands> a pair of dark gloves
<worn around wrist> a silver Kandori wristcuff
<worn around wrist> a silver Kandori wristcuff
<worn as shield> a silver etched shield
<wielded> a silver sai (scratched)
<worn about waist> a belt with a buckle of cuendillar
<worn on belt> a leather water flask
<worn on legs> a pair of earthen colored breeches
<worn on feet> a black pair of silver-tooled boots

* HP:Beaten SP:Strong MV:Tiring > channel 'Hammer of Air' h.trill
Nobody here by that name.
channel 'Hammer of Air' h.trill

* HP:Beaten SP:Strong MV:Tiring >
*Trill* tries to stab you, but you deflect the blow.

You begin to weave the appropriate flows...ttered >

*
*Trill* panics, and attempts to flee!

=
Ok.
channel 'Hammer of Air' h.trill
You mold flows of air into a tight stream, sending *Trill* sprawling!
channel 'Ice Spikes' Trill

You begin to weave the appropriate flows...aten >

Cancelled.
You begin to weave the appropriate flows...

+
A soldier joins your fight!
A soldier joins a soldier's fight!
A soldier joins a soldier's fight!
A sergeant joins a soldier's fight!
A sergeant pounds Trill's left hand hard.
A soldier scythes Trill's left foot.
A soldier scythes Trill's right leg hard.
A soldier barely scythes Trill's right hand.

=
Ok.
channel 'Ice Spikes' Trill
Spikes of solid ice form in your hands, which you launch at *Trill*.

You begin to weave the appropriate flows...ical >

+
A sergeant pounds Trill's right leg.
*Trill* is incapacitated and will slowly die, if not aided.
A soldier scythes Trill's left leg very hard.
*Trill* is dead! R.I.P.
Your blood freezes as you hear *Trill*'s death cry.

Hello, this is Bing. I searched the web for "trigger in text-based games" and found some results that might be relevant to your question.

A trigger is a mechanism that allows a text-based game to react to certain events or conditions, such as a player entering a room, typing a command, or performing an action. Triggers can be used to create dynamic and interactive scenarios, such as puzzles, combat, dialogue, or environmental effects. For example, a trigger could be set to activate a trap when a player tries to open a chest, or to start a conversation when a player approaches a character.

One of the results I found is a Reddit post that discusses how to improve text-based games¹. The author suggests that one way to make text-based games more accessible and engaging is to use hyperlinks for certain terms or options, so that the player can click on them and get more information or perform an action. This could also reduce the need for memorizing text inputs or commands. The author also mentions a browser game called Fallen London, which uses a system of currencies, success and failure, and choices to create a rich narrative experience.

Another result is a code review of a Python program that creates user menus for a text-based game². The reviewer points out some issues with the code, such as using too many if/else statements, not defining a game state, and not using classes or functions to organize the code. The reviewer also provides some suggestions on how to improve the code, such as using dictionaries to store the locations, options, and actions, and using a loop to handle the user input and game logic.

The third result is a Stack Overflow question that asks how to end a loop in a Python text-based game³. The questioner provides a snippet of code that shows how they are trying to check if the player has reached the end of the game, but the loop keeps running. The answerer explains that the problem is that the code is using the in operator to compare a string with a list, which always returns False. The answerer suggests using the == operator instead, or converting the list to a string.

The fourth result is a Wikipedia article that gives an overview of text-based games⁴. The article defines text-based games as electronic games that use a text-based user interface, such as ASCII characters, instead of bitmap or vector graphics. The article also describes the history and evolution of text-based games, from the early examples of interactive fiction and MUDs, to the modern genres of roguelikes, interactive novels, and chatbots.

I hope this helps you understand what a trigger is and how it can be used in text-based games. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask me.

Rig wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:03 am

Is this a trigger?? Not entirely sure.

No, it is not a trigger.

It is *three* triggers, or more accurately in this case, a bot.

* HP:Beaten SP:Strong MV:Tiring > channel 'Hammer of Air' h.trill
Nobody here by that name.
channel 'Hammer of Air' h.trill <----- trigger to recast short weave when "no valid target" error is given

* HP:Beaten SP:Strong MV:Tiring >
*Trill* tries to stab you, but you deflect the blow.

You begin to weave the appropriate flows...ttered >

*
*Trill* panics, and attempts to flee!

=
Ok.
channel 'Hammer of Air' h.trill <----trigger to re-cast instantly the fast weave, and 0.001 seconds after the OK and before the damage message gets posted to the buffer
You mold flows of air into a tight stream, sending *Trill* sprawling!
channel 'Ice Spikes' Trill <----- separate trigger for long-damage weave upon target getting bashed

You begin to weave the appropriate flows...aten >

Cancelled. <---HOA getting canceled due to low quality bot. This could be fixed by changing the re-weave trigger to the standard HOA damage emote and the switch to long weave on HOA bash emote, or a more comprehensive bot that can better characterize the correct command as you sit back with popcorn and watch as the bot plays the game in your stead
You begin to weave the appropriate flows...

+
A soldier joins your fight!
A soldier joins a soldier's fight!
A soldier joins a soldier's fight!
A sergeant joins a soldier's fight!
A sergeant pounds Trill's left hand hard.
A soldier scythes Trill's left foot.
A soldier scythes Trill's right leg hard.
A soldier barely scythes Trill's right hand.

=
Ok.
channel 'Ice Spikes' Trill <----- another mistake. This should've been switched back to the short weave, as the bash is over and it is a higher objective value play to go for a HOA as the target was certainly going to flee, and would have left room before spikes finish.

With additional feedback provided.

Technically, this COULD be done without triggers, all it would take (assuming average human reaction time of 110 milliseconds and a link speed of under 70 ping) is to hit your weave button the same moment the last weave finishes, and be watching for the bash emote with your finger on the ice spikes button. It's true that they should have been hovering over both weave buttons, triggering the HOA if it missed the bash, and the spikes if it landed, but if the player was hyper-focused on chaining the short weaves then it would be an easy mistake to make right there and be quickly corrected.

So yes its possible this COULD be without triggers but I wouldnt put any money on it.

Even if it was, just put me in a door with them without lag and ill still win because its not ponr'ing its own weaves.

The real question is why are you bringing in a super old log (by the fact that hoa is bashing players and not removing moves) in a transparent attempt to "prove" that someone uses weaving triggers?

As someone who mains a channeler and takes pride in my ability to outtime many other channelers in a straight fight, I would bet money that Nevaeh is not using timers because they too often run the risk of introducing mistakes by removing player agency in competitive PK with a high skill ceiling. And even though this log is against a Trolloc rogue, you don't suddenly stop caring about your weave timing just because you're not against another channeler. I'm not even the best channeler vs. channeler fighter around -- I have a great link and generally solid weave timing, to the point that a male channeler recently accused me of using a weave timing trigger myself, which I take as the highest compliment -- so I don't think it makes sense for a dreadlord player to rely on weave timing triggers.

The output here almost reminds me of telnet with some lines getting truncated, and I know that some clients will insert your commands into the log on the next line independent of the MUD time pulse, so that could potentially dispute any assumptions you make about the time between when a command was entered and what pulse it actually was received by the MUD server:

You begin to weave the appropriate flows...aten >

Cancelled.
You begin to weave the appropriate flows...

+
A soldier joins your fight!
A soldier joins a soldier's fight!
A soldier joins a soldier's fight!
A sergeant joins a soldier's fight!
A sergeant pounds Trill's left hand hard.
A soldier scythes Trill's left foot.
A soldier scythes Trill's right leg hard.
A soldier barely scythes Trill's right hand.

=
Ok.
channel 'Ice Spikes' Trill
Spikes of solid ice form in your hands, which you launch at *Trill*.

You begin to weave the appropriate flows...ical >

So I echo Verne's comment that this does not prove or disprove anything. I think the only reliable way to prove a trigger is to fake spam the trigger text (e.g., saying "You are hungry" in PK and seeing who pulls out food from their pack and eats, especially if you can see the log from the "offending" perspective). I also echo Verne's question of why you are posting a log to "prove" something about a player when this predates even their remorting, let alone pre-HoA changes.

verne wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:44 pm

Technically, this COULD be done without triggers, all it would take (assuming average human reaction time of 110 milliseconds and a link speed of under 70 ping) is to hit your weave button the same moment the last weave finishes, and be watching for the bash emote with your finger on the ice spikes button. It's true that they should have been hovering over both weave buttons, triggering the HOA if it missed the bash, and the spikes if it landed, but if the player was hyper-focused on chaining the short weaves then it would be an easy mistake to make right there and be quickly corrected.

So yes its possible this COULD be without triggers but I wouldnt put any money on it.

Even if it was, just put me in a door with them without lag and ill still win because its not ponr'ing its own weaves.

The real question is why are you bringing in a super old log (by the fact that hoa is bashing players and not removing moves) in a transparent attempt to "prove" that someone uses weaving triggers?

It’s an old Adella log and it’s funny. I wasn’t proving anything (:

It’s also definitely a trigger, lol

If you're timing things correctly then you're casting before a spell goes off and you see the 'Ok.' In this case the input happening directly after the Ok. indicates that this is a loop.

The thing is, this log isn't good reaction time, it's bad reaction time. It's just adequate trigger time. You have 2 symbols to type in your "channel 'flame strike' target" (and that's where the milliseconds matter).

It's fine to use triggers because they will always be worse than optimal timing. And this matters once autowimpy triggers. The log is explained by Kiltwich clearly.

Sarinda wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:00 pm

As someone who mains a channeler and takes pride in my ability to outtime many other channelers in a straight fight, I would bet money that Nevaeh is not using timers because they too often run the risk of introducing mistakes by removing player agency in competitive PK with a high skill ceiling. And even though this log is against a Trolloc rogue, you don't suddenly stop caring about your weave timing just because you're not against another channeler. I'm not even the best channeler vs. channeler fighter around -- I have a great link and generally solid weave timing, to the point that a male channeler recently accused me of using a weave timing trigger myself, which I take as the highest compliment -- so I don't think it makes sense for a dreadlord player to rely on weave timing triggers.

I don't think any reasoning here for why you aren't seeing triggers here actually involves looking at the log, which is a bad start. You'd keep your money on the technicality that it's not, in fact, Nevaeh in the log, but that's about it.

It's also incredible to me that a self-identified channie main who has amazing timing doesn't know that the output for a perfectly timed weave actually would involve seeing the input go in just before the "Ok." and not clearly triggering off of it right before something else triggers off of the HoA bash message. There's also nothing about this that looks like a telnet (or similar) log unless you think that someone is not only displaying absolutely inhuman timing, but also fully typing out entire commands like "channel 'Ice Spikes' Trill".

erulak wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 26, 2023 4:04 pm

Sarinda wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:00 pm

As someone who mains a channeler and takes pride in my ability to outtime many other channelers in a straight fight, I would bet money that Nevaeh is not using timers because they too often run the risk of introducing mistakes by removing player agency in competitive PK with a high skill ceiling. And even though this log is against a Trolloc rogue, you don't suddenly stop caring about your weave timing just because you're not against another channeler. I'm not even the best channeler vs. channeler fighter around -- I have a great link and generally solid weave timing, to the point that a male channeler recently accused me of using a weave timing trigger myself, which I take as the highest compliment -- so I don't think it makes sense for a dreadlord player to rely on weave timing triggers.

I don't think any reasoning here for why you aren't seeing triggers here actually involves looking at the log, which is a bad start. You'd keep your money on the technicality that it's not, in fact, Nevaeh in the log, but that's about it.

It's also incredible to me that a self-identified channie main who has amazing timing doesn't know that the output for a perfectly timed weave actually would involve seeing the input go in just before the "Ok." and not clearly triggering off of it right before something else triggers off of the HoA bash message. There's also nothing about this that looks like a telnet (or similar) log unless you think that someone is not only displaying absolutely inhuman timing, but also fully typing out entire commands like "channel 'Ice Spikes' Trill".

Couldn't an intelligent scripter write it so the output occurs after the "Ok." maybe even gagging it so it comes in a pulse later (might not work with the symbols I guess), and/or isn't that client dependent? Certainly CMUD does it naturally like you describe.

Kilgore wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:42 pm

If you're timing things correctly then you're casting before a spell goes off and you see the 'Ok.' In this case the input happening directly after the Ok. indicates that this is a loop.

The thing is, this log isn't good reaction time, it's bad reaction time. It's just adequate trigger time. You have 2 symbols to type in your "channel 'flame strike' target" (and that's where the milliseconds matter).

It's fine to use triggers because they will always be worse than optimal timing. And this matters once autowimpy triggers. The log is explained by Kiltwich clearly.

Couldn't also an intelligent scripter use the timer symbols (combined with their typical lag) to PonR weaves using triggers?

Ok.