Wheel of Time Season 2: Episode 7 Discussion *spoilers*

[Katherine]

Wheel of Time Season 2: Episode 7
"Daes Dae'Mar"
Air Date: Sept 28 2023
A familiar face foils Moiraine and Rand’s plans.

**spoilers below for both this episode and future ones, including the books**

I was becoming more optimistic about the series, because the last few episodes seem to be trending towards better alignment with the book story. This episode left me feeling a bit disappointed and wary about the ending at Toman Head, particularly since they botched the ending of Season 1 so badly.

I like that the screenwriters understand that Matt's story is very much connected to his past lives but its not the same way that Ishamael is obsessed with final death. I wish they had just stuck with the books and had him discover this further into the show particularly as we get close to their adventures in Rhudiean. Maybe the screenwriters needed to make Matt more interesting for the first few seasons since they completely eviscerated Matt's struggle with the jeweled dagger. I dont know what's going on here really. But on a more encouraging note, the writers are nailing Ishamael's motivations pretty accurately. Since the show is focusing way more on the Forsaken this early in the plot than in the TGH book, I guess they feel obligated to give us clues why Ishamael and Lanfear are doing what they are doing.

"There is one rule, above all others, for being a man. Whatever comes, face it on your feet." The writers can never go wrong with Lan quotes from the books. More of this please.

The adaptation of the Maidens of the Spear to the screen is very very good. The details matter here from their spears, bucklers, veils, their cadin'sor, their handtalk, and we even got a nice introduction to ji'e'toh. Also the explanation that they are searching for the Car'a'carn rather than just dumbing it down and saying they are searching for the Dragon. Also more of this please.

Ok so now to the point that left me feeling a bit meh. In the books, Siuan and Moiraine were both in on the conspiracy keeping Rand a secret from the Tower. The show aligns well with this conspiracy all the way up to this episode. Having Siuan get cold feet and turn on Moiraine and try to cage Rand is way the hell off script. That's more in character with Elaida and not capturing Rand to control him during the Last Battle is the very reason Siuan is deposed and stilled. That's a major plot point in the books because that event leads to the Tower schism which sets up how the Aes Sedai align themselves with and against Rand for the next 13 books. Ugh &^*%!@&^%!!

I like that they showed a flashback to NS where Siuan and Moiraine witness Gitara's foretelling. The adaptation is not 100% book accurate, but its close enough. The vision did happen in the last few days of the Aiel War. Moiraine and Siuan were there but they were Accepted not full sisters yet. Tamra Ospenya was also in the room and they were attending her. It was nice to finally hear lines from the Karaethon Cycle being read on the show. That prophesy should've been introduced in Season 1 with Thom Merrilin telling parts of it while entertaining crowds, because it provides background structure to an otherwise very long story plot. Also, the wheel of time has a lot of mysticism in it. Taking that out of the show as a central feature removes a lot of color and awe from the plot. But we did get to see more of it in this show, so more please.

Finally, glad to see Moiraine got her connection to the One Power restored. We also got introduced to the idea of tying off a weave. AND a small detail---we finally got to see that male and female weaves are invisible to the opposite sex. Up until now its just been "The POWER" not saidar and saidin. This episode introduced us to the idea that men and women have completely different kinds of weaves, though it would be nice if they just came out and used the names "saidar" and "saidin". By not actually calling them saidar and saidin and making the point that they are separate, the writers make it seems like the taint is actually on the men and not on the male half of the source. I'm hoping this gets clarified in a later episode. Small note though, untying a weave by cutting it is REALLY dangerous. Moiraine was probably unaware of the dangers because it seems she did not know what tying off a weave actually was. But at least she was suitably worried about what could happen.

So I'm hoping for a good finale, but a lot of dishes have been broken already in the plot.

6/10 because there is so much to appreciate from the books, but those 4 points come from messing up the core narrative towards the end of the show.

[halfhand]

Rand: I like the very little that we've been dripped of his training by Lan

Lanfear: O'Keefe continues to do a great job as Lanfear. Except with the plot making her walk around foregate just setting fire to everything is a little brute force for her character. It would make sense more for her to send a bunch of trollocs as distraction or a little more subtelty. Also, Cairhien has like no gate defenses of any kind?

Siuane: Sophie also is doing good job as Suiane. Good use of fish idioms. Gitara's Foretelling scene is much needed.

Moiraine: I'm glad the "Stilling" is done, her (and Lan's) moping was getting to be a grind.

Mat: Definition of asspull. Walking along with a guy in cloak knocks you out and you wake up across the continent to get you to the next plot point. Okay super lazy. I'll reserve judgement on this tea thing, but at first impression, it just seems like a very cheap way to do the Flicker Flicker scenes. Bringing Ishamael's nihilism motivation early is good though .

Perrin/Aiel: Bain/Chiad introduced, so hopefully Gaul makes the cut too. Agree that they did a good job with the AIel. The lighting n the other hand -- I thought my monitor was falling asleep

Egwene: continued good development. Liked Egwene showing off. Not sure why her sul'dam hasn't taken her name yet.

Anvaer/Barthanes: Barthanes remain a darkfriend like most expected. Weird place to leave it though long plotwise as the Queen is still alive and Cairhien is stable.

The final episode is next week. Hopefully, they get good value with their money. Not sure how they are going to be able to cram everything they need to in one episode. They're going to have to cram in Egwene's escape, Rand vs Turak, Matt and Horn and Heroes, the Aiel now too, CoL vs Seanchan, Battle in the Sky, and based on the preveiws they are going to be incluidng all those. Not a lot of breathing room.

[Prykor]

"There is one rule, above all others, for being a man. Whatever comes, face it on your feet." The writers can never go wrong with Lan quotes from the books. More of this please.

I wish they used the story from the books, the writers can barely go three full scenes without introducing one or more plot holes based on their fanfiction side story additions that have sucked up over half of this season's runtime! Even for somebody who hasn't read the books, so many of the things that are shown simply don't pass mustard when I spend more than 10 seconds thinking things through.

From the darkfriend getting outed, the aunt told "everybody" already about that, yet the one who relayed the order to him... should have been easily outed by this point as well.
Looking back at the previous season, it took 3 sedai to hold a shield on Logaine, yet Siuan does it with the flick of her hand, and others hold the weave solo... directly following the scene of Logain laughing about how unbelievably powerful Rand is in terms of raw talent and ability to pull to have pulled so much power infront of him.
And then Logain being able to see the weave when Rand needed to seize the source in order to see it.

It's so blatant that I can't help but laugh at it. The show runners and writers need to be fired.

Small note though, untying a weave by cutting it is REALLY dangerous. Moiraine was probably unaware of the dangers because it seems she did not know what tying off a weave actually was. But at least she was suitably worried about what could happen.

As if the writers bothered to think things through that far -- I'm honestly surprised they didn't have Lanfear cut the weave out of spite toward Ishy with all of the rewriting of how the one power works. They went this far and only now bring up the point about women not being able to see male weaves. I'm curious if they will violate that with the vice versa situation once Rand has to actually hold his own against a female channeler...but more importantly, they had Rand actually DO something instead of having the moment of glory stolen and given to a female character! Literally a first so far in the show, and immediately followed up by putting him back on his knees at the power of a woman, can't have him looking too strong and powerful now, can we?

Though the weave itself was quite disappointing. It wasn't even something circling her body, just a circular ball placed on/in her chest area seemed kinda lazy. I was also hoping to see the weave unravel like a spool of thread, unwinding and releasing over a period of time... but NOPE, just "close your eyes and pull the trigger" (reminded me very much of the I-Robot scene) followed by a bright flash, also very lazy.

[Kybrin]

Man coming off of what I thought was a fantastic episode 6 into 7 was just such a disappointment. Lan finally begins to come back around and has his scene with Rand and then single Aes Sedai are able to shield him like it's nothing. I understand the purpose: They need to portray to the audience that brand new baby untrained channeler is significantly weaker than someone who has had practice and training, but c'mon. I'm also still a little hung up on travel and locations. Like, I'm pretty sure they are saying Aviendha and Perrin are in Toman Head ... if not, are we to assume they WALKED from TH to the waste?

Biggest gripes are: The entire last scene - All of a sudden everyone is an expert on finding and reading ancient Aes Sedai texts? If LAN could find it, why have the Browns not found it and been teaching the entire tower how to tie weaves for hundreds of years?

Whatever they are doing with Mat and the tea - Only really because I fear this means they are getting rid of the ter'angrael thing where he saw his past lives.

Biggest wins: Lan and Rands scene. Egwene dumpstering the other Damane but even more, "I will kill you."

[Katherine]

Like, I'm pretty sure they are saying Aviendha and Perrin are in Toman Head ... if not, are we to assume they WALKED from TH to the waste?

Hah! I was confused too until the last scene where they finally crested that ridge and was able to see Falme. I thought for sure they somehow power-ported to the Waste, because...why not? Talk about mixing on-screen imagery and confusing the heck out of people who read the books and know about the Aiel Waste. I am hoping the Waste is more like Arizona and less like the Sahara Desert. I've always pictured the waste as being more barren than sandy desert. To be honest, given that Matt is seeing his past lives in a cup of tea rather than using the ter'angreal in Rhuidean, I am just hoping we get to see the Aiel Waste at all.

[Tolveor]

I was enjoying this episode, untill the end when Siuan says Moraine swore an oath on the oathrod to obey her. WHAT? like did they read the books at all?

That might have ruined that whole episode for me, even though i was entertained by the rest of it