Dirks gate
Dirks gate
Would love an imm response to this situation as it seems to have engendered a great deal of enmity and general distrust. I think the lack of open discourse just adds to that so I'd love to see some open communication.
Re: Dirks gate
I'm not sure what situation is being referenced.
However, dirks are a finite resource; They had a high value, and we removed that value. To make up for that, we then allowed them to be turned in for compensation, and I had not realized that this was a time-gated compensation opportunity which is something I am not ok with. They will be able to be turned in by anyone in the near future, permanently.
However, dirks are a finite resource; They had a high value, and we removed that value. To make up for that, we then allowed them to be turned in for compensation, and I had not realized that this was a time-gated compensation opportunity which is something I am not ok with. They will be able to be turned in by anyone in the near future, permanently.
Re: Dirks gate
I think it's a massive error of judgment to allow a new member of a secret clan with PK bonuses to advance by turning in 400 qp worth of dirks. It's an error of judgment by the player (obviously manipulating the system in bad faith), the clan for allowing their members to behave that way, and immortals for allowing it. Advancement in a clan should depend on work done on that character while clanned. Especially "elite" clans with PK bonuses. I don't think that's controversial.
I do understand the reasoning of reimbursing for the loss of valuable items. If you want to pursue a middle path, the most reasonable thing to do would allow awards for players beyond a certain qp threshold, like 800 or 1000. That means they still have to advance by their own work and merits but can apply the QPs to more long-term progress. That said, the player in question had plenty of opportunities to turn them in when dirks were first nerfed, so I have very little sympathy.
I do understand the reasoning of reimbursing for the loss of valuable items. If you want to pursue a middle path, the most reasonable thing to do would allow awards for players beyond a certain qp threshold, like 800 or 1000. That means they still have to advance by their own work and merits but can apply the QPs to more long-term progress. That said, the player in question had plenty of opportunities to turn them in when dirks were first nerfed, so I have very little sympathy.
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Hieronymus
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:14 am
Re: Dirks gate
They've had value this entire time in terms of silver tokens (which you've been able to turn them into for the past several months) as well as equivalent value of three silver tokens towards one or several uniques. The idea that they have not had value is absurd at best, an outright lie at worst. An outright lie like this one:
"They will be able to be turned in by anyone in the near future" reads like a cover-your-ass for the many people who turned them in for their various values (up through turning them in for discounts towards uniques) since their "removal". It also (possibly unintentionally) underscores that this was something done for one single player because one Immortal randomly decided that he could be compensated for them ("a one-off") at what they were worth 6 months ago rather than what anybody could have gotten in the entire time between and probably even now. Even when I criticize players for mass-turning in equipment for alt qps and QPs, they can usually have the decent point of "that is/was the system" -- which was clearly not even the case this time. Not really the fault of the player in question, but a strong reflection of Immortal dysfunction.
When I came back in 2020 and wanted to transfer a character off of seanchan to LS in a way that at least one other player had done prior and several had done for changing clans that I didn't see announced as discontinued until after I asked, I had to lobby and then wait for a new system that I couldn't use until it went into effect for everyone. Why was this any different?
So, anyways - I have 1000 tps right now and I prefer 5 silver tokens and 75 qps from 6 months ago to the 85 qps 1000 tps is worth now -- can I have that instead?
Yeah, okay.
"They will be able to be turned in by anyone in the near future" reads like a cover-your-ass for the many people who turned them in for their various values (up through turning them in for discounts towards uniques) since their "removal". It also (possibly unintentionally) underscores that this was something done for one single player because one Immortal randomly decided that he could be compensated for them ("a one-off") at what they were worth 6 months ago rather than what anybody could have gotten in the entire time between and probably even now. Even when I criticize players for mass-turning in equipment for alt qps and QPs, they can usually have the decent point of "that is/was the system" -- which was clearly not even the case this time. Not really the fault of the player in question, but a strong reflection of Immortal dysfunction.
When I came back in 2020 and wanted to transfer a character off of seanchan to LS in a way that at least one other player had done prior and several had done for changing clans that I didn't see announced as discontinued until after I asked, I had to lobby and then wait for a new system that I couldn't use until it went into effect for everyone. Why was this any different?
So, anyways - I have 1000 tps right now and I prefer 5 silver tokens and 75 qps from 6 months ago to the 85 qps 1000 tps is worth now -- can I have that instead?
Re: Dirks gate
I'm going to lock this thread because it is not going to be productive: there are a small number of people (Atkins/Harun: neither of you) who will debate this to death in ways that border on houseguest rule violations.
The reality is that:
- This mechanic existed for many years (rare/valuable eq -> qps); and to some degree still exists in the form of clan treasurers.
- That mechanic has generally been reduced in terms of its prominence and availability, for the reasons you outlined, Harun (you can transfer "effort" from one character to another, which isn't great RP and is a bit silly to be able to jump ranks).
- As Vampa already said, the 104s discussed after a player appealed and we unanimously agreed it was a mistake to remove this functionality with no warning to players -- generally a bad practice for something that had been around for years and was not game-breaking to begin with -- and because we removed the usable value of dirks it was better to leave permanently in place for dirks to allow them to slowly exit the game with some residual value.
- This specific 'situation' has been argued to death by a small set of people who are pretty worked up, in ways that seem tied to a long-standing history of antagonism between two camps of players. It has also been somewhat exaggerated (rank 1 -> 6 is not true in this case, etc.). I have spent actual hours debating it - in the interest of imm engagement - with people whose minds are pretty made up, when we normally do not comment on these sorts of appeals at all, and all it does is increase the frustration of everyone involved without changing anyone's pre-determined POV. So I will not extend it into a forum debate.
Atkins: the players who have complained the most have known that a permanent change is coming - it was relayed to them in those private discussions, so while I think it is fair to criticize the speed of it, it is not true that there has not been Imm engagement with the players most worked up. It ultimately comes down to volunteer-availability to make the change: because people's IRL comes first and can be variable, we generally do not tend to announce "coming soon" unless there are major gameplay changes like taint v2 that might massively impact some characters.
Hope that helps.
The reality is that:
- This mechanic existed for many years (rare/valuable eq -> qps); and to some degree still exists in the form of clan treasurers.
- That mechanic has generally been reduced in terms of its prominence and availability, for the reasons you outlined, Harun (you can transfer "effort" from one character to another, which isn't great RP and is a bit silly to be able to jump ranks).
- As Vampa already said, the 104s discussed after a player appealed and we unanimously agreed it was a mistake to remove this functionality with no warning to players -- generally a bad practice for something that had been around for years and was not game-breaking to begin with -- and because we removed the usable value of dirks it was better to leave permanently in place for dirks to allow them to slowly exit the game with some residual value.
- This specific 'situation' has been argued to death by a small set of people who are pretty worked up, in ways that seem tied to a long-standing history of antagonism between two camps of players. It has also been somewhat exaggerated (rank 1 -> 6 is not true in this case, etc.). I have spent actual hours debating it - in the interest of imm engagement - with people whose minds are pretty made up, when we normally do not comment on these sorts of appeals at all, and all it does is increase the frustration of everyone involved without changing anyone's pre-determined POV. So I will not extend it into a forum debate.
Atkins: the players who have complained the most have known that a permanent change is coming - it was relayed to them in those private discussions, so while I think it is fair to criticize the speed of it, it is not true that there has not been Imm engagement with the players most worked up. It ultimately comes down to volunteer-availability to make the change: because people's IRL comes first and can be variable, we generally do not tend to announce "coming soon" unless there are major gameplay changes like taint v2 that might massively impact some characters.
Hope that helps.