Expanded Treasurer/Clan Progression

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Vannor
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:05 pm

Expanded Treasurer/Clan Progression

Post by Vannor » Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:49 pm

Seems like a reoccuring theme that players are left wondering 'what now?' after achieving their own personal goals.

Most people have their favourite or home clan, and think a good way to keep people sticking to those alts. There's a good framework in place already with the treasurers.

So, does anyone have some ideas for expanding options on the treasurers?

What sort of things have people bought, and did it feel worth it?

If you havent used them, is it because of lack of interest? Pricing structure etc?

Personally I'd like to see an expanded list of permanent upgrades for clans (ie adding a blacksmith to your clan quarters, as an example) purchaseable through the treasurer.

Stomp
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:25 am

Re: Expanded Treasurer/Clan Progression

Post by Stomp » Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:57 pm

upgrades are too little for DS, raise 200k gold for mob upgrades and you have to pick a single mob. Which in keep means your picking 1 random mob that loads the most that may or may not be remotely useful for cityhead hits. Substantially different from LS where your home city will be the majority of 1 mob type. You cannot upgrade the elites at cityhead mobs. These are now pointless upgrades in any case as the frequent cityhead hits have stopped.

Master for a month upgrade is fun and nice perk but now significantly less meaningful for the cost with downing of master bonus's. This cost probably should be adjusted.

Two things actually worth buying, potion upgrades(which was changed from flat % load on mob at 20k each smob to 20k per potion on that mob) or 50qps(assuming you buy the 50qps for the entire clan and not just 3 people).

Patrol in the wild is a fun thought, 500k cost is really high given the limitted zones PK occurs in. How much use would a random patrol actually get for DS? We already have so many pot patrols and fade mobs that can be used.

Mronz
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:49 pm

Re: Expanded Treasurer/Clan Progression

Post by Mronz » Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:20 pm

I always thought the idea/intent was a great one, but I thought the bang for your buck was way too low.
IMO, it doesn't hurt other players, if a clan gets to add rooms, blacksmiths, armorers, stables, etc, make it something cool, useful, or RP based, and reasonably attainable, I don't know, 25k gold, per add on, or something.

Reyne
Posts: 1418
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: Expanded Treasurer/Clan Progression

Post by Reyne » Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:58 pm

I'd love some kind of permanent RP touch type things to save up for. Nothing that would affect PvE or PvP.

The Tower does have a couch to Maradon that one of the Ajahs pays for which is nice. The whole idea of a clan treasury etc as established is great.

Draz
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:14 pm

Re: Expanded Treasurer/Clan Progression

Post by Draz » Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:51 am

Heyas

Dragonsworn did a purchaseable noloc which was incredibly useful and helpful to members of the clan - and then removed.

Dragonsworn did multiple 50qp purchases (I think at least 4?)

Tower / Maradon have the coach/barracks which is great.

Tear purchased a jump exit from Illian which got very little use before it was removed/a jump exit randomly added to Tear which is meant to be a city around a fortress - why would it have it?

Tower at some point I think did added potions loads, as did Queens guard

I think its a great idea, but I think at some point the 'these are a guide' got missed from certain clans and not from others.

For example I believe one clan purchased multiple, potentially permanent, significant mob upgrades. The mob level and equipment of mobs in Lugard is super high - and for example I've had the patrols kill me from full in two rounds, or instant chase multiple rooms and engage kill me at batt

Another example would be Illian - I believe or at least assume purchased upgrades to Magita's fort. If you go there and they own it ALL of the mobs are elite Illian companions with Halberds etc. Its something like a 5-10 level difference on the mobs, significantly compounded since their grouped, but I never heard back anything saying if Defenders could purchase similar. I'm also assuming they've purchased upgrades to the mobs i their city as last time I checked their levels they were several levels higher than any other city.

I believe sword brothers boat was a purchase, and is fantastic. It just happened to coincide I think with the few active swordbrothers who were going to push clan activity going inactive.

I asked about the mob upgrade thing; asking for different options or ways to change it, and the impression I got was that it would be a single specific mob type getting a single specific increase.

I asked and pushed for a clan to do a huge RP bent that would match their cities RP and focus, with negotiating points being the existing horse loads and paying for it, nothing came of it and subsequently the loads were nuked and the horses made vastly more expensive.

*shrug*

I'd love tiered progressions; doesn't need to be pk oriented. If your stores load more, have more cash, you're going to generate more people into the city. If there are more mini quests, you're going to generate traffic. If you can buy more horse eq, or eqd horses. traffic. If.smobs load a token that can be turned in for a small reward..personalised traffic. stuff like that

Draz
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:14 pm

Re: Expanded Treasurer/Clan Progression

Post by Draz » Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:54 am

Heyas

Dragonsworn did a purchaseable noloc which was incredibly useful and helpful to members of the clan - and then removed.

Dragonsworn did multiple 50qp purchases (I think at least 4?)

Tower / Maradon have the coach/barracks which is great.

Tear purchased a jump exit from Illian which got very little use before it was removed/a jump exit randomly added to Tear which is meant to be a city around a fortress - why would it have it?

Tower at some point I think did added potions loads, as did Queens guard

I think its a great idea, but I think at some point the 'these are a guide' got missed from certain clans and not from others.

For example I believe one clan purchased multiple, potentially permanent, significant mob upgrades. The mob level and equipment of mobs in Lugard is super high - and for example I've had the patrols kill me from full in two rounds, or instant chase multiple rooms and engage kill me at batt

Another example would be Illian - I believe or at least assume purchased upgrades to Magita's fort. If you go there and they own it ALL of the mobs are elite Illian companions with Halberds etc. Its something like a 5-10 level difference on the mobs, significantly compounded since their grouped, but I never heard back anything saying if Defenders could purchase similar. I'm also assuming they've purchased upgrades to the mobs i their city as last time I checked their levels they were several levels higher than any other city.

I believe sword brothers boat was a purchase, and is fantastic. It just happened to coincide I think with the few active swordbrothers who were going to push clan activity going inactive.

I asked about the mob upgrade thing; asking for different options or ways to change it, and the impression I got was that it would be a single specific mob type getting a single specific increase.

I asked and pushed for a clan to do a huge RP bent that would match their cities RP and focus, with negotiating points being the existing horse loads and paying for it, nothing came of it and subsequently the loads were nuked and the horses made vastly more expensive.

*shrug*

I'd love tiered progressions; doesn't need to be pk oriented. If your stores load more, have more cash, you're going to generate more people into the city. If there are more mini quests, you're going to generate traffic. If you can buy more horse eq, or eqd horses. traffic. If.smobs load a token that can be turned in for a small reward..personalised traffic. stuff like that

iria
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:35 pm

Re: Expanded Treasurer/Clan Progression

Post by iria » Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:16 am

I've always felt the price tag for some of the things was way too high, but it could be that I've always been somewhat bad at making money. Was always astounded when people could round up hundreds of thousands of gold crowns back when Ely was doing those auctions. So for me paying thousands or hundreds of thousands for temporary perks never seemed worth it to me. The upgrade to cityguards/patrol/postures for r5+.

The bonus I've felt was most bang for your buck has been the garden. Possibly the 50 qps for your clan is also worth doing, but the price always seemed daunting to myself. Would be great to see more permanent small things could be added, although I guess the issue is that it would accumulate over time and might be a bit too much, so would maybe need to be a cap on the "modifications" you could add and if you want to add something you'd have to give up on something else - depending on what form the permanent additions would be.

Elysia
Posts: 7908
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: Expanded Treasurer/Clan Progression

Post by Elysia » Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:23 pm

Draz is essentially wrong about a ton of his assumptions... E.g. Magita, Sword and Hand, Illian and so on.

The most frequently purchased things are increased herb loads, herb chests and the 50 qps (6 times total now, afaik?). There's been purchases of master postures and a heron load as well.

The problem with these is essentially upkeep. Updating treasurer tallies is manual. If there's a ton of withdrawals, like when I did the Queen's Guard tally a few weeks ago, I have to do it manually with an Excel sheet because the script Taziar wrote (yay for that) doesn't do withdrawals. Plus with tons of withdrawals I double check manually, anyway, so yeah, a lot of work. Ideally, we need coded clan banks with a full log of transactions and for these things to be automated to some extent, but mobol can't pull it off so here we are (or rather, I am for about 95% of it) doing it manually.

Then there's the keeping tabs on when things need removing again OR balance issues if these are permanent. If these were permanent, some clans will be rich by virtue of activity and will gain an edge over clans that are inactive, which would likely only exacerbate balance between clans, giving less reasons to join certain already inactive clans.

It's not a perfect system and the disparity between justice clans and non-justice clans exists, same for LS vs DS.

Too many ideas that clans come up with are disproportionate though. I get it, you want something fun. But the proverbial "issuable herons for all" does not a better game make. No, no one asked because people at least seem to have the sense that that won't fly, but I couldn't remember a real game example. :P

Draz
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:14 pm

Re: Expanded Treasurer/Clan Progression

Post by Draz » Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:12 am

Thanks Ely

Out of interest.. would it be so hard to get the script that does the tallying to do withdrawals? I don't know what it is the output is, but work that you have to do on this takes away from other stuff

I'd also say a generic.. this was calculated automatically and is your total, would go a long way towards frustrations for when the tally doesn't match up

I actually had a pretty big issue with the heron loads - as it felt like a trap to make it impossible to get herons into the game. To my understanding every single heron that imms knew about got taken back. These loads were put in place by that clan to encourage cityhits (and generate qps for the clan) and the next time it was done I don't think there was a single hit? I forget how many people got punished but it was a lot.

Ok my assumptions may be wrong. However that then highlights other discrepancies - defenders offered to pay to bring the level of their mobs in Magita fort up to a comparable level and got zero response, I've failed at flipping it when its companion held with 4 people while I can solo it otherwise.

Re the mob things I'll drop you a mail - as I may have misunderstood your responses about paying for upgrades, if so hopefully something comes of this! :)

Elysia
Posts: 7908
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: Expanded Treasurer/Clan Progression

Post by Elysia » Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:54 am

Draz wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:12 am
Thanks Ely

Out of interest.. would it be so hard to get the script that does the tallying to do withdrawals?
I tried and can't get it to work. Also, when there's huge amount of withdrawals, there's sometimes something weird going on, like someone stealing from a clan or otherwise being shady, so it's worth it doing it twice, anyway.
actually had a pretty big issue with the heron loads - as it felt like a trap to make it impossible to get herons into the game. To my understanding every single heron that imms knew about got taken back. These loads were put in place by that clan to encourage cityhits (and generate qps for the clan) and the next time it was done I don't think there was a single hit? I forget how many people got punished but it was a lot.
The idea was that people get a group an slay the king. While there was an implementation quirk with the heron not on the King, a few players found a way to circumvent normal code to make the farming doable by 3. Small wonder things were confiscated, really. Do you really think it would be intended to get a farmable heron that's doable by a half a handful?
Ok my assumptions may be wrong. However that then highlights other discrepancies - defenders offered to pay to bring the level of their mobs in Magita fort up to a comparable level and got zero response, I've failed at flipping it when its companion held with 4 people while I can solo it otherwise.
This is a bug/ balance issue and has absolutely zero to do with paying for anything, which is why you wouldn't get a response. Also, if it's not brought up in the right way, e.g. "can we pay to up our mobs" vs "this is weird, Companion mobs seem to be WAY higher level, is this intended", then yeah, crickets will happen.

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