Are players leaving?

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myzec
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:40 pm

Are players leaving?

Post by myzec » Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:53 pm

Hi all,

I personally have not been very active lately but I have heard a number of active players have recently either left or have decided to play less. When I have looked at the player numbers they seem down from where they were a few months ago. I was wondering if my perception of declining player numbers was correct and if so what are the reasons people have stopped playing or are playing less?

For me personally, I found the frequent zone changes meant I had to invest time in remapping which I didn't have time or inspiration for (not saying zone changes are bad it just created more admin than I personally wanted). In addition a lot of the people I enjoyed playing with stopped playing or significantly reduced play time (most of this decline was typically other players pushing them away) so I found myself logging on and running around solo which got boring quite quickly for me.

Interested to get your thoughts on this and in particular if there is a reduction in players what may be causing this and what could be done to reverse the flow?

Kitiara
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:53 pm

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Kitiara » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:51 pm

myzec wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:53 pm

For me personally, I found the frequent zone changes meant I had to invest time in remapping which I didn't have time or inspiration for (not saying zone changes are bad it just created more admin than I personally wanted). In addition a lot of the people I enjoyed playing with stopped playing or significantly reduced play time (most of this decline was typically other players pushing them away) so I found myself logging on and running around solo which got boring quite quickly for me.
For me you nailed it. There have been fairly big changes over the last year or 2. I would say starting with the big Warrior change... it just became frustrating to play, where if I am not active every day it feels like I have to read every forum post, both announcements and players lounge, to know how to play a game ive been playing for over 10 years. Im at best a casual pker, so all the zone, equipment, skills changes... its just a lot to keep up with and it doesn't feel great to rip over something you thought you knew/understood.

And then the snowball effect of, people I enjoy playing with also lowering activity for similar reasons...

What sucks is this doesn't feel like constructive criticism... The changes don't all feel like bad changes... but they are the reason that my activity has tanked in recent months.

Aira
Posts: 747
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Aira » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:58 pm

I've just been busy with RL. I figured out a health issue and remedied it, which resulted in a burst of energy that I used to deep clean my home from top to bottom, sometimes well into the evening, after which I didn't have the energy to play. I'm on a few times a week still, but I commit less time to the game in general.

Dimmu
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:38 am

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Dimmu » Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:06 pm

As of late, if I log in I rarely stay longer than 10 minutes. Maybe it's because after well over 2 decades I just don't find the game that interesting anymore and those things(and certain long time pals) that did make me want to play are gone or just outright neutered.

Reyne
Posts: 1418
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Reyne » Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:57 pm

myzec wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:53 pm
Hi all,

I personally have not been very active lately but I have heard a number of active players have recently either left or have decided to play less. When I have looked at the player numbers they seem down from where they were a few months ago. I was wondering if my perception of declining player numbers was correct and if so what are the reasons people have stopped playing or are playing less?

For me personally, I found the frequent zone changes meant I had to invest time in remapping which I didn't have time or inspiration for (not saying zone changes are bad it just created more admin than I personally wanted). In addition a lot of the people I enjoyed playing with stopped playing or significantly reduced play time (most of this decline was typically other players pushing them away) so I found myself logging on and running around solo which got boring quite quickly for me.

Interested to get your thoughts on this and in particular if there is a reduction in players what may be causing this and what could be done to reverse the flow?
I don't log in much unless an Accepted / novice needs something. I do lurk on the forum just in case someone needs to reach me or whatnot.

Don't need to rehash the conversation for the Nth time I think but in general I am frustrated at the channeler changes/nerfs in the last few years. Feels like death by a thousand cuts and I basically just don't have fun playing the character. I know it's not just me that feels like that, either.

It doesn't help that enjoyable PvE is nerfed for the sake of making it more PvP oriented. Does anyone use the heralds really anymore? Doesn't seem like it. For a while there it was so much fun to log in and join a herald train for an hour or so. I guess just because Erulisse put in the effort to R8 off them... they had to get nerfed into the ground? It's gotta take a full group at least a couple hours to finish a run which spits them out in the Blight where DS are waiting? I just don't have the time for that kind of grinding anymore, anyway.

In general, part of it is that it feels like there's just not all that much to do for 1-3 people who only have maybe an hour of playtime (tbf I haven't really pursued the new gem crafting stuff that much yet). The new dailies (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16220) are a fantastic idea but I was frustrated to see that they will not pay rewards past 999 qp. Why? Idk. Meanwhile if someone wants to get say 2 QPs a day from dailies then it will take 2-3 years of playing every day to hit R8 from R7. What's the issue if someone wants to invest the time/effort? Is it not valuable/desirable to have a clan master logged in every day? It feels like progression at higher ranks can only be through PvP. If that's exactly the point, fine, just not my cup of tea I guess.

I do love the RP stuff that has been implemented, to be fair. Just kinda not too many people who want to engage in RP these days.

Idk. My suggestion is maybe replace the PvP bonuses on r7 and r8 with entirely aesthetic/RP options and then ease up on the grind a bit but to be fair to the imms I'm sure at this point any significant change will result in pissed off people.

A stretch goal would be coding updates to implement stuff like poses or similar RP quality-of-life things. More focus on buffing things that feel weak versus nerfing - that's more fun for everyone imo. PvP doesn't feel all that deadly to me. It's too easy to just scamper away if you are losing... Maybe fighting should take more stamina, or you can choose to have like +10% bash chance in exchange for 3-4x more stamina cost per bash? Maybe weaving in melee should take a little stamina, too? Would maybe like to see more damage across the board and less tanky-ness. Perhaps a slightly wider variance in damage rolls such that fights are less predictable which would lead to more dynamism than retreat to nearest patty/city when low? Idk. Just feels like fights can drag on forever these days.

Aureus
Posts: 968
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:13 pm

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Aureus » Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:59 pm

Player numbers grew during the pandemic and sheltering-in-place, and also grew a lot when the show started to get advertised and was on the air. They've declined a bit since the peak show numbers (to be expected), but seem to be creeping up again now if you look at the wot playground data. There's some regular seasonality to player numbers as well. It's a relatively small-ish base to begin with, so the fluctuations can be noticeable.

Overall seems pretty healthy, though long-term a text based game is not exactly an easy sell so the fact that it's a small-ish, tightly-knit community is normal. As always, the best things you can do to help nurture the community are to (1) help advertise and bring in interested new players and show them the ropes - new players are the lifeblood of any community as older players inevitably retire or become less active due to IRL/etc, (2) be friendly and helpful to newbies and newer players (IMO we have a really great community here), and (3) engage with other players in PK/smobbing/RP/etc since it's a multiplayer game.

Kitiara
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:53 pm

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Kitiara » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:47 pm

Reyne wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:57 pm



Don't need to rehash the conversation for the Nth time I think but in general I am frustrated at the channeler changes/nerfs in the last few years. Feels like death by a thousand cuts and I basically just don't have fun playing the character. I know it's not just me that feels like that, either.

It doesn't help that enjoyable PvE is nerfed for the sake of making it more PvP oriented. Does anyone use the heralds really anymore? Doesn't seem like it. For a while there it was so much fun to log in and join a herald train for an hour or so. I guess just because Erulisse put in the effort to R8 off them... they had to get nerfed into the ground? It's gotta take a full group at least a couple hours to finish a run which spits them out in the Blight where DS are waiting? I just don't have the time for that kind of grinding anymore, anyway.

In general, part of it is that it feels like there's just not all that much to do for 1-3 people who only have maybe an hour of playtime (tbf I haven't really pursued the new gem crafting stuff that much yet). The new dailies (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16220) are a fantastic idea but I was frustrated to see that they will not pay rewards past 999 qp. Why? Idk. Meanwhile if someone wants to get say 2 QPs a day from dailies then it will take 2-3 years of playing every day to hit R8 from R7. What's the issue if someone wants to invest the time/effort? Is it not valuable/desirable to have a clan master logged in every day? It feels like progression at higher ranks can only be through PvP. If that's exactly the point, fine, just not my cup of tea I guess.

I do love the RP stuff that has been implemented, to be fair. Just kinda not too many people who want to engage in RP these days.
Wanted to +1 these thoughts as well...

As someone who only plays 1 character, and that character being an FC... it is frustrating to be constantly told how overpowered I am... nerf after nerf after rip after rip.

It feels like the game is being balanced to prevent abuse, and typically the abuse is from a few highly committed players (ie Erulisse and heralds)... but in doing so they also reduce the amount of things to do in short time frames. I used to hop on for an 30-60min, grab a group with Ominas, sometimes not a really strong group outside of him, hit Silvak, then take that group and do other smobs or do 3-4 herald chains... (and then usually play longer because time and interactions)

Now, that 30-60mins of activity is just not feasible... Silvak got way harder with no wvd, and then even harder from what I read (tbf I havent been active to try him). Heralds take way longer, have less rewards and are more dangerous for a group that typically wants to PvE not PvP.

The biggest loss here is the 30min-1hr that I would spend with other players after we were done... Accepted/Novices who wanted to RP and such.

Its the Movie vs a TV show problem... I am willing to commit to 30-60min increments and then play for 5 hours... Im not always willing to commit to 2-3 hours... and thus dont play at all.

TLDR; We need more things to do that dont take hours. Which probably means things to do with small groups that are not dangerous.

EDIT: Formatting

langois
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:53 pm

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by langois » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:17 pm

I stopped playing for a few reasons.

1. Aqp system for fading was finally made harder for troll rogues just as I was about to master my ko bal. I don’t disagree with it but the shifting goal posts mid goal after dozens of terrible ko bal fades came through really killed my motivation.

2. Troll move boost is as poorly done as the warrior abs reduction. It’s painfully obvious it needs tweaking but it remains the same. My dha vol runs circles around wolfbros nevermind mounted chars. It’s unbalanced pk and made me lose interest in playing either side.

3. For nearly 6 months wbs were scapegoated by the same group of incels for everything wrong with the game, and this ties into point 2, none of them seem very vocal about fixing the poorly executed troll mvs boost. If I logged on DS I was made to feel unwelcome as I was just an LSer playing ds. If I logged in langois I was harassed in discord via pms or in public (usually pms). But I’d get the same risk averse pk from the same vocal crowd regardless of alt or setup.

I’ve been accused of orchestrating the removal of people from Dsworn, the downing of Dsworn. Accused of ruining wb.

Basically for a 39 year old father of two with a business to run while trying to navigate broken global supply chain logging on to get dung on became a chore. I had better things to spend my time on

Harun
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:45 pm

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Harun » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:37 pm

Just to be clear, the premise of this thread is disingenuous, and a good example of astroturfing. That is frustrating because most of the repliers are replying in good faith and it could probably be a good conversation.

A number of players disappeared a few months ago because there was a crackdown on the abuse of VPNs in PK. For years, a few players had been using VPNs to log on to statters on the opposing side and snipe the narrates. This created a completely asymmetric playing field. It was well-known, an embarrassing breach of game integrity, and it's good they were punished. My preference would be for punishments in this game to be swift, decisive, and public (more than extreme). That's the best way to guarantee fairness and consistency.

These were largely the same group of players that, as Langois is saying, were griefing Wolfbrothers in a number of ways in and out of game. I'd diagnosis it as a case of ressentiment. The purpose was never to create an actual conversation about balance, and never to propose actual balance changes. Because they're not rooted in balance problems. The design was to create a narrative of resentment, to create a hostile environment to drive particular players away, and to bait those players into reacting so that they would look like the aggressors. Sometimes it worked - both in driving away players and in baiting them. That's exactly the type of behavior that needs to be cracked down on to maintain players here.

So I hope the conversation carries on, but do understand that there are really two conversations happening, and that the manifest conversation is not the same as the latent purpose.

Reyne
Posts: 1418
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Reyne » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:00 pm

Both Langois' post and Harun's are disconcerting.
For years, a few players had been using VPNs to log on to statters on the opposing side and snipe the narrates.
This infuriates me to hear. If true, this should just be an loss of all QPs / demote to R1 if not just banning outright.

I don't want to start drama but... banning people like that ends up in higher player numbers in the end. I know at least two people who just don't play anymore because they've been more or less bullied off. Kind, highly contributing people. Their loss is felt. Langois makes three. Likely by the same group every time if we're being honest.

*shrug* Idk there's my 2 coppers. Not super interested in meta-drama and conversations within conversations (unless RPing my channeler ofc) so I'll let it lie there. I'm glad the imms are cracking down on that the VPN thing.

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