Harun,
The only people that ever treated me bad, called me names, and talked dung every chance they could get were your WB friends and Spyder... I have sat down over a bowl of the best PHO on the planet with you once Harun, and you have always been cool to me. But every instance of toxic dung-throwing at me was from that group. I got called crazy ass names in PK... and every chance they could get they would post replies on alts trying to counter anything I said. It finally got to the point where I had to leave the main Discord, because I was told it wasn't considered harassment when I brought it to game admin. I'm leaving because the staff is biased towards their friends and do not treat all players equally. I have helped dozens and dozens of players over the years... have a long list of DMs of me setting up peoples clients, making custom stuff for them... even the REEEEES too. Find one person not in that group that ever said I was rude, toxic, a cheater or a liar... you can't.
But at some point, when you continue to be treated in an abusive way, you have to see the relationship isn't healthy and move on. That is what I am doing. That is why I am leaving WoTMUD, a game I started playing in 1998.
Best of luck, and Go Dawgs!
Are players leaving?
Re: Are players leaving?
Hi everyone
I think I have some unique perspective into this
I’ve been very close with Jaster and Zangief, and at a time when I was monitoring for any dung to be used against.. let’s be blunt the other party here, I managed to outright murder them in horrible ways on multiple occasions without keeping it secret on LS narrates. Anyone who knows their character can be a reasonable judge of where they will draw a line or what they accept from themselves and to be blunt if zangief had a newb logged in mayybbe he would have let one of those deaths happen, not multiple. I’ve also once, and once only, had zangief tell me when on the same race as me that he had just been told we were going to get ganked, and honestly, I don’t consider smash groups / gank squads / premeditated traps consistent with a fair pk dynamic. I’ve done similar in solo pk when I’m fighting someone and others rock up I’ll advise them, because I want to win the pk not just gank.
This was being discussed in some other threads and I read Haruns first post and oh god did I go off for how manipulative it felt. Retrospectively.. I have a history of having conflicts with people that get worse and worse while we don’t communicate and resolve things. And yet the people I resolve things with for the most part seem to like me. I can only imagine that Haruns perspective is based off just being chortlesnorfling blind to how horrible things have been perpetuated by his friends. I’ve also been told of “explicit” proof of imms outing Alts and was advised to use VPNs (primarily due to one imm)
Jaster and Zangief are both grumpy dinosaurs. And they’ve fucked up in very real ways. And as much as both say they have dropped this and aren’t the ones perpetuating it, if you needle them the right way the same dung is going to come out because it’s not resolved, and it likely won’t be. And yet they’ve both been amazing players for the game and for people here and I’ve seen both of them make genuine effort to not continue making this worse. I have been flat out told by members of the other side that they won’t ever stop.
I really like Langois, I really like Harun, I think Spyder when he’s not on a bandwagon is one of the smarter and more reasonable people I’ve encountered and I like him, I like and will be forever grateful to jaster and zangief. I still think rig is easily manipulated and has been manipulated to his side in this but that’s an aside, he can also be a decent guy. I think Taziar, Dartes, Erulisse and Enoch have all been wonderful to new players and old, and sunk nearly countless hours into this game, and as well as the players of dukug and adael are the most consistent and friendly and welcoming and fun people on here.
I’d like to echo the sentiments from Reyne and Kitiara that opening things up for people to achieve stuff in a short period builds activity. I don’t understand the reduction in rewards for masters for the reasons already stated.
Yes we are losing players.
I think I have some unique perspective into this
I’ve been very close with Jaster and Zangief, and at a time when I was monitoring for any dung to be used against.. let’s be blunt the other party here, I managed to outright murder them in horrible ways on multiple occasions without keeping it secret on LS narrates. Anyone who knows their character can be a reasonable judge of where they will draw a line or what they accept from themselves and to be blunt if zangief had a newb logged in mayybbe he would have let one of those deaths happen, not multiple. I’ve also once, and once only, had zangief tell me when on the same race as me that he had just been told we were going to get ganked, and honestly, I don’t consider smash groups / gank squads / premeditated traps consistent with a fair pk dynamic. I’ve done similar in solo pk when I’m fighting someone and others rock up I’ll advise them, because I want to win the pk not just gank.
This was being discussed in some other threads and I read Haruns first post and oh god did I go off for how manipulative it felt. Retrospectively.. I have a history of having conflicts with people that get worse and worse while we don’t communicate and resolve things. And yet the people I resolve things with for the most part seem to like me. I can only imagine that Haruns perspective is based off just being chortlesnorfling blind to how horrible things have been perpetuated by his friends. I’ve also been told of “explicit” proof of imms outing Alts and was advised to use VPNs (primarily due to one imm)
Jaster and Zangief are both grumpy dinosaurs. And they’ve fucked up in very real ways. And as much as both say they have dropped this and aren’t the ones perpetuating it, if you needle them the right way the same dung is going to come out because it’s not resolved, and it likely won’t be. And yet they’ve both been amazing players for the game and for people here and I’ve seen both of them make genuine effort to not continue making this worse. I have been flat out told by members of the other side that they won’t ever stop.
I really like Langois, I really like Harun, I think Spyder when he’s not on a bandwagon is one of the smarter and more reasonable people I’ve encountered and I like him, I like and will be forever grateful to jaster and zangief. I still think rig is easily manipulated and has been manipulated to his side in this but that’s an aside, he can also be a decent guy. I think Taziar, Dartes, Erulisse and Enoch have all been wonderful to new players and old, and sunk nearly countless hours into this game, and as well as the players of dukug and adael are the most consistent and friendly and welcoming and fun people on here.
I’d like to echo the sentiments from Reyne and Kitiara that opening things up for people to achieve stuff in a short period builds activity. I don’t understand the reduction in rewards for masters for the reasons already stated.
Yes we are losing players.
Re: Are players leaving?
Absolutely 2nd this. I won't be posting further on any of it as Draz had summarized it well. The 'other' group actively perpetuate it. Zang/Jaster will respond to defend themselves when someone throws barbs out because, really, who wouldn't. I do the same thing too.Draz wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:36 amHi everyone
I think I have some unique perspective into this
I’ve been very close with Jaster and Zangief, and at a time when I was monitoring for any dung to be used against.. let’s be blunt the other party here, I managed to outright murder them in horrible ways on multiple occasions without keeping it secret on LS narrates. Anyone who knows their character can be a reasonable judge of where they will draw a line or what they accept from themselves and to be blunt if zangief had a newb logged in mayybbe he would have let one of those deaths happen, not multiple. I’ve also once, and once only, had zangief tell me when on the same race as me that he had just been told we were going to get ganked, and honestly, I don’t consider smash groups / gank squads / premeditated traps consistent with a fair pk dynamic. I’ve done similar in solo pk when I’m fighting someone and others rock up I’ll advise them, because I want to win the pk not just gank.
This was being discussed in some other threads and I read Haruns first post and oh god did I go off for how manipulative it felt. Retrospectively.. I have a history of having conflicts with people that get worse and worse while we don’t communicate and resolve things. And yet the people I resolve things with for the most part seem to like me. I can only imagine that Haruns perspective is based off just being chortlesnorfling blind to how horrible things have been perpetuated by his friends. I’ve also been told of “explicit” proof of imms outing Alts and was advised to use VPNs (primarily due to one imm)
Jaster and Zangief are both grumpy dinosaurs. And they’ve fucked up in very real ways. And as much as both say they have dropped this and aren’t the ones perpetuating it, if you needle them the right way the same dung is going to come out because it’s not resolved, and it likely won’t be. And yet they’ve both been amazing players for the game and for people here and I’ve seen both of them make genuine effort to not continue making this worse. I have been flat out told by members of the other side that they won’t ever stop.
I really like Langois, I really like Harun, I think Spyder when he’s not on a bandwagon is one of the smarter and more reasonable people I’ve encountered and I like him, I like and will be forever grateful to jaster and zangief. I still think rig is easily manipulated and has been manipulated to his side in this but that’s an aside, he can also be a decent guy. I think Taziar, Dartes, Erulisse and Enoch have all been wonderful to new players and old, and sunk nearly countless hours into this game, and as well as the players of dukug and adael are the most consistent and friendly and welcoming and fun people on here.
I’d like to echo the sentiments from Reyne and Kitiara that opening things up for people to achieve stuff in a short period builds activity. I don’t understand the reduction in rewards for masters for the reasons already stated.
Yes we are losing players.
The difference is on a day to day level, Zang and Jast just don't care. They just want to login, kill people, or otherwise just hanging out doing whatever. I'm not taking shots for anyone Harun, I have a unique experience of both groups. I can comprehensively say that Zang/Jast camp is far less toxic in today's reality, no matter how it was however many years ago.
Do you guys still curse the name of the bully who stole your lunch money? Just get over it and get on with it
Re: Are players leaving?
Already doing this and have it in testing, btw.Reyne wrote: A stretch goal would be coding updates to implement stuff like poses or similar RP quality-of-life things.
Re: Are players leaving?
Providing a summary in hopes to bringing this thread back to a constructive pathway.
Are players leaving? Yes
Why?
1. Meta changes (making people feel that the goalposts are shifting e.g. aqps for fading, r8, 2h daggers)
2. Harassment/griefing/doxxing (basically pages 2-4 of this thread)
3. Need to spend time IRL
4. Not much to do once you have hit your goal (r7/r8)
5. Increasingly less "bite-sized" activities (1-3 players with 1 hr of playtime) with hardening of heralds/objectives
6. PvP more encouraged vs PvE (as a route for progression - tied back to 5)
7. Friends leaving
For me since returning, I've found that the mud has taken a huge step forward with more bite-sized activities for PvP/PvE. Really on the right track imo.I enjoyed #5 (daily quests) and am looking forward to the daily quest change e.g. new content.
That said, slightly bummed out that it wouldn't award anything past 999 qps. As mentioned by other commenters, if folks wanted to grind 2 years every day to get from 1k - 3k qps - all power to them.
Are players leaving? Yes
Why?
1. Meta changes (making people feel that the goalposts are shifting e.g. aqps for fading, r8, 2h daggers)
2. Harassment/griefing/doxxing (basically pages 2-4 of this thread)
3. Need to spend time IRL
4. Not much to do once you have hit your goal (r7/r8)
5. Increasingly less "bite-sized" activities (1-3 players with 1 hr of playtime) with hardening of heralds/objectives
6. PvP more encouraged vs PvE (as a route for progression - tied back to 5)
7. Friends leaving
For me since returning, I've found that the mud has taken a huge step forward with more bite-sized activities for PvP/PvE. Really on the right track imo.I enjoyed #5 (daily quests) and am looking forward to the daily quest change e.g. new content.
That said, slightly bummed out that it wouldn't award anything past 999 qps. As mentioned by other commenters, if folks wanted to grind 2 years every day to get from 1k - 3k qps - all power to them.
Re: Are players leaving?
Thank you to everyone who has participated in this thread. While I know we may have gone in different directions for the most part I think we have had some great posts. I also wanted to call out three members of the community that I personally think have added a huge amount. Adael, for all the hours of work to help people get into the game and manage changes. Also always willing to help even if it does not benefit him. Draz, for taking new players under his wing and making things happen. I would say he was the biggest reason the seanchan side came back to life. And finally to Porka who was the staple of DS. Always willing to help, amazing attitude and very skilled at starting pk. People like this and many others made the game so fun to come back to.
Re: Are players leaving?
Well that explains why Zangief and Jaster consistently logger on DS whenever LS was in keep. Whether it was the IP thing or discord, just seems blah. After the experience and skill these players have - Jaster far more than Zangief. Sad state of affairs and definitely time to take a break if you're cheating 20 years into your career, unless you started the career that way.
As to the original thread, I've been too busy to play, hoping for more time in July. Many of the changes are confusing and pointless. Why change winding zone? A zone that hasn't been touched is suddenly deemed not choky enough or too easy...doesn't make sense to me. Also, I was on the other day and a critical trolloc didn't leave bloodies was this changed also? This is the best game I have ever played because of thr mechanics and skill it takes but also because of the community and the repercussions your actions have(both inside and outside the game) can truly firetruck or help you. I'll have to make a decision if I can dedicate enough time to learn all these new changes when I'm finally free.
I think many of you have become too soft and call anything you see as toxic. While there are certainly large groups of asshole players trying to control clans, for the most part the game can still be enjoyed. I have also found the ones who are generally black balled have earned their reputations of being undeserving. I would love to hear more about this cheating scheme Zangief had going to hurt WB? Lol. Guy is so shady and two faced on this game - the perfect Chosen.
As to the original thread, I've been too busy to play, hoping for more time in July. Many of the changes are confusing and pointless. Why change winding zone? A zone that hasn't been touched is suddenly deemed not choky enough or too easy...doesn't make sense to me. Also, I was on the other day and a critical trolloc didn't leave bloodies was this changed also? This is the best game I have ever played because of thr mechanics and skill it takes but also because of the community and the repercussions your actions have(both inside and outside the game) can truly firetruck or help you. I'll have to make a decision if I can dedicate enough time to learn all these new changes when I'm finally free.
I think many of you have become too soft and call anything you see as toxic. While there are certainly large groups of asshole players trying to control clans, for the most part the game can still be enjoyed. I have also found the ones who are generally black balled have earned their reputations of being undeserving. I would love to hear more about this cheating scheme Zangief had going to hurt WB? Lol. Guy is so shady and two faced on this game - the perfect Chosen.
Re: Are players leaving?
*Firmly grabs hold the Sacred Chalice, basking in its holy waters as he performs the ceremonial cleansing ritual, "Praised be Aluminum! Praised be the Silver Sheets of Divine Wisdom! May Thy silver shine forever keep me safe! May Thee provide sanctuary against the vile demons known as "Staff", for they art out to get me! But nay! Get me they shall not! For Thy flawless, triangular design, shall fend off all Evil! And all 5G Frequencies! And also the Nanobots! And some Other Stuff! For of Other Stuff there is plenty! Praised be Aluminum!" - "There. I have said it. I have recited the most Holy Chant of all. I am now clean, and worthy of donning the Sacred Hat. Yes. I am ready. Ready...to face the world.Why do I choose to use a VPN if I am not doing anything wrong one might ask. Well to me that's also quite simple. I have no faith in the staff here. If I make a new character and I don't want it to be known I feel that you have to mask your IP. Staff will snoop your IP and staff will most definitely tell other players who you are. Some might say I have a pretty nice tinfoil hat on, perhaps that's true, but that is a hill I will die on and no one will convince me otherwise.
- Sacred Rituals and Ceremonies, Handbook of the Enlightened Ones
Re: Are players leaving?
After my meltdown (sorry) I took quiet a bit of time away. I decided to come back and not play Hasp but focus more on pk. While I found Hasp fun, the rp rubbed people the wrong way and it gets old being berated by people for it. Not even in rp but many would take it so personal to the point of constantly sending tells with hate.
Now I played Bul a ton to hit rank 6. During that time I constantly get yelled at by fades for not doing what they think I should. Or accused of calling in people or whatever it is. Couple that with the Rig vs Jaster banter of yells during cross race and it caused a very annoying dynamic. Mainly Castien yelling whatever and leaving pin any time Jaster was on. It is very annoying when both sides are so hell bent on yelling at one another or a cussing the other side of not doing whatever they think they should. I play and died in Bul a ton so getting yelled at I play like a well-proportioned felid when I do not do what you want got old.
Not to defend either because in discord both groups are so ridiculously against one another there cannot be a discussion without it turning into smart ass remarks.
What I failed to do the first time was remove myself from negative situations. Now to prevent another mental health spiral I have removed myself from the situation. I have played twice the last few months and had some fun so hoping it is a bit better now.
Now I played Bul a ton to hit rank 6. During that time I constantly get yelled at by fades for not doing what they think I should. Or accused of calling in people or whatever it is. Couple that with the Rig vs Jaster banter of yells during cross race and it caused a very annoying dynamic. Mainly Castien yelling whatever and leaving pin any time Jaster was on. It is very annoying when both sides are so hell bent on yelling at one another or a cussing the other side of not doing whatever they think they should. I play and died in Bul a ton so getting yelled at I play like a well-proportioned felid when I do not do what you want got old.
Not to defend either because in discord both groups are so ridiculously against one another there cannot be a discussion without it turning into smart ass remarks.
What I failed to do the first time was remove myself from negative situations. Now to prevent another mental health spiral I have removed myself from the situation. I have played twice the last few months and had some fun so hoping it is a bit better now.