Are players leaving?

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Mhaliah
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:48 am

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Mhaliah » Thu May 19, 2022 1:47 pm

Elysia wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 5:48 pm
Here's the original post and subsequent discussion:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14836

viewtopic.php?f=74&t=14838&p=128009&hil ... rn#p128009

The problem was people setting up crossrace pk using outside means of communication, quietly whacking eachothers' brains in, scalping, and then hiding the eq somewhere and messaging the player "stuff is hidden there". Rinse, repeat, rank. That's not pk, that's sparring for qps. And that is not fair compared to every other player out there. Not to mention the quiet on the downlow stuff makes it seem like there's nothing going on, and one interested in pk. In reality people are just trying to min max risk vs reward. One of the core tenets of the game is that you can be looted. That's negated when you do the nudge-nudge-wink-wink with a friend thing and spar eachother to master/ beyond.
Ok. That makes sense. I guess the TB treaty is fine since the scalps are not turned in for QP. The one thing I do appreciate is that there are no caps on PK scalp turn in rewards. I mean there have been times I ripped 3-5 times in a day in PK, and I like that even when I die it is helping some other player achieve their goals.

If this 1v1 sparing were happening where both players were turning in scalps and met the following conditions: First, for clans that did not have a specific PK bonus attached to rank. Second. not for aptqp/remort qp.Third, they are not just "trading scalps" and are legitimately PKing. I dont think I would care at all about the not narrating and equipment returns etc. This is why I made that suggestion about making most of the clan bonuses exactly the same (as far as PK related).

If almost all the clans were limited to PK bonuses that exist for all clans now, and it was relatively simple for people to get to Rank 7 through the play style they enjoy (PK, PvE, RP) it wouldn't matter to me if a few people "abused" a system to get to rank 8. This could let imms focus on a limited set of "PK Elite Bonus" clans and altqp earners who are looking for elite PK bonuses and need the attention of the Imms to keep things fare.

Let clans keep or get things like retools (QG uniforms), emotes (blademasters), increased rent items (wisdoms), other "flavor" and RP perks. Make those available for everyone to see what clan has what. It is these things that make being in a clan most fun for a lot of players. I used to love being in the rank titled "Bannerman" on my QG and holding the retooled banner, it made me feel like a Bannerman!

Elysia
Posts: 7908
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Elysia » Thu May 19, 2022 2:59 pm

We will likely be going in another direction and give some coded bonuses to all clans. However, that is going to be years before that sees the light of day, not in the least because we still have to think of them and big changes getting imped usually takes longer for Flash to get to.

Draz
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:14 pm

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Draz » Sat May 21, 2022 6:33 am

Awesome Elysia

Just a note Mhaliah; There's been a couple times imms have queried my deaths (its a bit weird when a character whose been ta'varen for weeks dies 4-5x in a day) so its definitely something they pay some attention to. That said I've had reasonable justifications in each case (usually if I die a ton I'm either tired or sick, or my link is worse than usual, coupled with losing a good set and deciding rather than moping to go and pk in basic sets).

Mhaliah
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:48 am

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Mhaliah » Sun May 22, 2022 4:06 pm

Draz wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 6:33 am
Just a note Mhaliah; There's been a couple times imms have queried my deaths (its a bit weird when a character whose been ta'varen for weeks dies 4-5x in a day) so its definitely something they pay some attention to. That said I've had reasonable justifications in each case (usually if I die a ton I'm either tired or sick, or my link is worse than usual, coupled with losing a good set and deciding rather than moping to go and pk in basic sets).
That is good. You are in a clan with great PK bonuses.

My idea is mostly about letting Imms turn focus to more important things. Just thought that if all but a few clans only got the PK related bonuses all clans have then policing those clans so closely would not be necessary. I'm always about things that reduce work for Imms. The most valuable resource in this game is Imm time and energy lol.

Firin
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:32 pm

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Firin » Sun May 22, 2022 11:55 pm

Go to account based system, limit players to one clanned char, age death at 50 or perma death at 25 pk deaths, make rogues/fades/warders/channies require some form of account points to roll, start at lvl 51. Only way to solve wotflation!

Mhaliah
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:48 am

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Mhaliah » Tue May 24, 2022 5:17 pm

Firin wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 11:55 pm
Go to account based system, limit players to one clanned char, age death at 50 or perma death at 25 pk deaths, make rogues/fades/warders/channies require some form of account points to roll, start at lvl 51. Only way to solve wotflation!
This made me think of the scene from Talladega Nights where the kids are running past screaming Anarchy Anarchy!

Felurian
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:53 pm

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Felurian » Sun May 29, 2022 9:45 am

Players always leave. People move on from everything.

I think the more important question is: Are new players staying? Some -- competition for gaming time is really stiff these days. Many excellent games to choose from.

I believe, in advance of the marketing campaign for season 2, some methods of retaining new players might be devised. Briefly, imagine an Imm giving a tour to a new-ish player of the world as way to say 'see all the great puzzles people have made for you to discover and solve' in a way that a player can't (teleport and nohassle) and finishing with "We hope you enjoy the things we've built. Please be kind. Here's a cookie. Have fun."

Madison
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:35 pm

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Madison » Mon May 30, 2022 9:31 am

Funny how one keeps circling back nearly 20 years later to a text-based game. Guess there must have been something there, eh!

The risk/reward for Wotmud has always been incredibly skewed - and not in the way you think I mean. The problem has long been the arbitrary enforcement of rules, standards, and as many have pointed out - the factionalism.

I pretty much gave up Wotmud after losing my Sitter turned DF. Making Red was everything I wanted, at least initially. All the power in the universe...yet bound by the rules of the genie. I decided to DF after being propositioned by a particular Chosen Fade. As I was never a DSider or the privy to the opacity of the DF path at the time, I was naive and ultimately scammed out of nearly remort level alt qps. Nevertheless, it was a fun journey and an exciting challenge.

The most difficult part of being a DF at the time (I assume it is still a similar experience today) was the IC / OOC meta interplay. Wotmud has always been a game that blurred those lines and many friends take such things personally. I definitely lost a lot of ooc friends when I was outed - despite the fact that I never cheated or intentionally screwed anyone over. In fact, most of my DFery was around RP. Going from Red Sitter to Brown, working out a great number of Brown secrets and passing them to several Chosen.

Then I crossed the wrong AS/Gaidin, who used certain DSide info to out me. Some friends warned me it was coming down (which I was suppose was crossing a line), but I decided to attend the Hall hearing because I knew 100% there was no way for anything to be proven in-game. I still remember to this day my shock when in speaking with a certain OG terror of an Imm, that she was really going to let this person screw over years of character progression. Basically I was given the choice - swear my innocence on the oath rod and have all my alt qps wiped, or go Known.

Stupid me, I chose going Known. Oh, and I wasnt going to get those alt qps from that AWOL Chosen, with whom I had worked for years - completely unaware that his "recorded" alt qps had never been recorded. Yeah, I was naive - but this game used to be somewhat secret. I tried appealing to certain Imms. I had logs etc. But I was unsuccessful.

I was never a *great* pker, but I was a decent one - could outweave many when I had someone to watch my 6. I had some fun for a bit, but for a female Known to succeed takes solo pk skills above mine. To their credit, Razhak and Skittles tried to help me recover, but this game just takes too damn long :p By that point I was married, with far less free time. Having to start over wasnt for me. So I decided to end the story - turned Madison over to the HoL. It was a fun bit of RP. I do regret it somewhat though!

Every few years (or months) I pop by and am amazed by all the changes. Certainly keeps the game fresh (although quite hard on the mapper - still remember when Markus's Charging Boars map was the bees knees).

I guess my takeaway is that Wot can be a fun place, but prepare to lose everything in a heartbeat for something entirely out of game, beyond your control. Also, like life, this game is unrepentedly unfair at times. Dont look for justice or fairness. If you can stomach that, its a great place to hang out, kill some people, uncover a bit of treasure, fake being drunk (or not), and make some memories (shout out to Red Eagles for some of my best).

Until someone you were friendly with finds out they lost their shockie to your DFery. Then watch out ;)

isabel
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by isabel » Mon May 30, 2022 1:36 pm

Madison wrote:
Mon May 30, 2022 9:31 am
Funny how one keeps circling back nearly 20 years later to a text-based game. Guess there must have been something there, eh!

The risk/reward for Wotmud has always been incredibly skewed - and not in the way you think I mean. The problem has long been the arbitrary enforcement of rules, standards, and as many have pointed out - the factionalism.

I pretty much gave up Wotmud after losing my Sitter turned DF. Making Red was everything I wanted, at least initially. All the power in the universe...yet bound by the rules of the genie. I decided to DF after being propositioned by a particular Chosen Fade. As I was never a DSider or the privy to the opacity of the DF path at the time, I was naive and ultimately scammed out of nearly remort level alt qps. Nevertheless, it was a fun journey and an exciting challenge.

The most difficult part of being a DF at the time (I assume it is still a similar experience today) was the IC / OOC meta interplay. Wotmud has always been a game that blurred those lines and many friends take such things personally. I definitely lost a lot of ooc friends when I was outed - despite the fact that I never cheated or intentionally screwed anyone over. In fact, most of my DFery was around RP. Going from Red Sitter to Brown, working out a great number of Brown secrets and passing them to several Chosen.

Then I crossed the wrong AS/Gaidin, who used certain DSide info to out me. Some friends warned me it was coming down (which I was suppose was crossing a line), but I decided to attend the Hall hearing because I knew 100% there was no way for anything to be proven in-game. I still remember to this day my shock when in speaking with a certain OG terror of an Imm, that she was really going to let this person screw over years of character progression. Basically I was given the choice - swear my innocence on the oath rod and have all my alt qps wiped, or go Known.

Stupid me, I chose going Known. Oh, and I wasnt going to get those alt qps from that AWOL Chosen, with whom I had worked for years - completely unaware that his "recorded" alt qps had never been recorded. Yeah, I was naive - but this game used to be somewhat secret. I tried appealing to certain Imms. I had logs etc. But I was unsuccessful.

I was never a *great* pker, but I was a decent one - could outweave many when I had someone to watch my 6. I had some fun for a bit, but for a female Known to succeed takes solo pk skills above mine. To their credit, Razhak and Skittles tried to help me recover, but this game just takes too damn long :p By that point I was married, with far less free time. Having to start over wasnt for me. So I decided to end the story - turned Madison over to the HoL. It was a fun bit of RP. I do regret it somewhat though!

Every few years (or months) I pop by and am amazed by all the changes. Certainly keeps the game fresh (although quite hard on the mapper - still remember when Markus's Charging Boars map was the bees knees).

I guess my takeaway is that Wot can be a fun place, but prepare to lose everything in a heartbeat for something entirely out of game, beyond your control. Also, like life, this game is unrepentedly unfair at times. Dont look for justice or fairness. If you can stomach that, its a great place to hang out, kill some people, uncover a bit of treasure, fake being drunk (or not), and make some memories (shout out to Red Eagles for some of my best).

Until someone you were friendly with finds out they lost their shockie to your DFery. Then watch out ;)
To this day i regret my part in your outing. I didn't know the larger stuff involved or even how much work went into DF stuff. I had such a naive understanding of the game and i thought it was expected RP to gather evidence (in actual fact, there's no in-game benefit). Also had that silly LS bias that DFs are inherently "bad" characters.

When i actually got to play against you i realised you were one of the funnest / best opponents there could be. You wholeheartedly deserved to remort. I didn't know enough about the game then to recognise just how much of a great dynamic you brought to the game.

You were one of the people who made the game fun and one of the competent pkers out there, both of which imo are the lifeblood of the game.

I don't play anymore but it's one of my regrets on this game. I wish you'd been able to complete your character progression. You deserved it.

Madison
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:35 pm

Re: Are players leaving?

Post by Madison » Mon May 30, 2022 4:39 pm

isabel wrote:
Mon May 30, 2022 1:36 pm
To this day i regret my part in your outing. I didn't know the larger stuff involved or even how much work went into DF stuff. I had such a naive understanding of the game and i thought it was expected RP to gather evidence (in actual fact, there's no in-game benefit). Also had that silly LS bias that DFs are inherently "bad" characters.

When i actually got to play against you i realised you were one of the funnest / best opponents there could be. You wholeheartedly deserved to remort. I didn't know enough about the game then to recognise just how much of a great dynamic you brought to the game.

You were one of the people who made the game fun and one of the competent pkers out there both of which imo are the lifeblood of the game.

I don't play anymore but it's one of my regrets on this game. I wish you'd been able to complete your character progression. You deserved it.
What an incredibly kind post - thank you! I know that even before I ultimately retired, we had many more positive interactions in-game and I appreciated you as a player (which was kind of an odd headspace for me at the time, lol). My post was intended more as a historical commentary, as well as an observation on the grander scope of Imms, arbitrary rules, and imbalances of power, which still frustrates me in the most peripheral corner-of-my-eye kind of way. But I definitely have a ton of good will to many of the Imms, and the playerbase as a whole for some great times - which got me through some tough times.

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