Zone sense continued...

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Jaghut
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:58 pm

Zone sense continued...

Post by Jaghut » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:06 pm

BUAHAHAHAH! @Rhys

Rhys
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:10 pm

Re: Zone sense continued...

Post by Rhys » Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:30 pm

It's all my fault, isn't it?

Jaghut
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:58 pm

Re: Zone sense continued...

Post by Jaghut » Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:37 pm

well now i feel bad.... but yes it is. teehee

Callesa
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:45 pm

Re: Zone sense continued...

Post by Callesa » Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:30 am

A question, just before it gets locked again:

We have had book arguments confirming that zone sense is rpish for some Aes Sedai, not all of them, but not necessarily tied to the bond.

So, could an Aes Sedai at rank 8 get zone sense, perhaps as an option replacing some other bonuses?

You know, for me the rank 8 will be more about the achievement so I will try to mostly RP my way to it anyways, but this was really a sweet bonus (and most bonuses for everything are being downed, including Master ones, which I've gotten to just a short time ago, and bond bonuses, and everything). And I am extremely unlikely to ever bond again (few players in my usual times, different playstyles, many more AS available than Gaidin, the bond bonuses not really worth the 20 sps loss...).

Prykor
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:56 pm

Re: Zone sense continued...

Post by Prykor » Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:01 pm

Callesa wrote:
Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:30 am
A question, just before it gets locked again:

We have had book arguments confirming that zone sense is rpish for some Aes Sedai, not all of them, but not necessarily tied to the bond.

So, could an Aes Sedai at rank 8 get zone sense, perhaps as an option replacing some other bonuses?

You know, for me the rank 8 will be more about the achievement so I will try to mostly RP my way to it anyways, but this was really a sweet bonus (and most bonuses for everything are being downed, including Master ones, which I've gotten to just a short time ago, and bond bonuses, and everything). And I am extremely unlikely to ever bond again (few players in my usual times, different playstyles, many more AS available than Gaidin, the bond bonuses not really worth the 20 sps loss...).
I think that there are three pieces to this, only one is directly related to this thread but all three are worth discussing.

For the zone sense piece....while RP is part of the argument may work for shadow spawn (especially ones with strongly dark influences like fades or DL's), I have to ask how sensing seanchan fits into that. From a gameplay and overall character/class/side balance, I don't believe additional bonuses to channelers should go into that direction -- Channelers bonuses really ought to be focused on them be better combat death balls (or more combat-survivable death balls), not gaining having the options for tracking or sensing danger nearby.
The lack of those utility aspects that make channies NEED to be much more paranoid about getting stabbed or otherwise snuck up on by a group, or needing to sacrifice some of their precious pracs in order to get some moderate utility out of track to see if there might be danger on the path that they are traveling on. Things that make that easier on channies really ought to be avoided.

The other pieces, master bonuses and bonding.... should probably go into another thread else this one gets side tracked or closed without giving those topics the attention they deserve for discussion.

Stomp
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:25 am

Re: Zone sense continued...

Post by Stomp » Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:28 pm

Dusty sarges yell your group and location. Just make every mob do that. It will be perfect.

An ancient tree yells badfade1 is in the forest
An ancient tree yells badfade2 is in the forest
An ancient tree yells buttplug is in the forest

Callesa
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:45 pm

Re: Zone sense continued...

Post by Callesa » Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:48 pm

Prykor wrote:
Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:01 pm
I think that there are three pieces to this, only one is directly related to this thread but all three are worth discussing.

For the zone sense piece....while RP is part of the argument may work for shadow spawn (especially ones with strongly dark influences like fades or DL's), I have to ask how sensing seanchan fits into that.
I totally agree and would be totally ok with "just" Shadowspawn zone sense.

From a gameplay and overall character/class/side balance, I don't believe additional bonuses to channelers should go into that direction -- Channelers bonuses really ought to be focused on them be better combat death balls (or more combat-survivable death balls), not gaining having the options for tracking or sensing danger nearby.
The lack of those utility aspects that make channies NEED to be much more paranoid about getting stabbed or otherwise snuck up on by a group, or needing to sacrifice some of their precious pracs in order to get some moderate utility out of track to see if there might be danger on the path that they are traveling on. Things that make that easier on channies really ought to be avoided.
So you're basically telling me that channies should be played only from 1am to 5am my timezone, because I am not supposed to survive without meatshields. More attack is worthless, when I play with a short wholist, and a large part of it are statters or seanchan/dfs. The zone sense would give a better survivability to a small group or individual, who are trying to for example smob.

I think we should also stop this channeler hate thing. Channelers are part of the game and books, an important one. So, downing them till they are too annoying to be played, that doesn't really make any sense. They have already been downed enough.

Also, the White Tower is a clan requiring a lot of dedication, that was being taken a lot of prestige away, as other channie clans arose. So, giving people this reward, if we reach rank 8, doesn't sound crazy and has nothing to do with upping the whole class.

The other pieces, master bonuses and bonding.... should probably go into another thread else this one gets side tracked or closed without giving those topics the attention they deserve for discussion.
You're wrong, those things are absolutely worthless to be discussed, because the imms made the decision clear, nothing will be changed. Mastering is now not supposed to be motivating (the best part is the wonderful quest), and the bond is not worth it either. If you want fun bonuses, work towards a remort, light side is not valued at all.

The sad part is: The whole rank 8 bonuses were meant to motivate people, to play their masters and overall advanced alts more, instead of everybody just moving on to remorts. But it is now not happening. I've already heard a few people say "Well, I wanted to try rank 8, but I won't bother, as it's been downed." Because we didn't get absolutely anything else as a motivation instead of this. Really, a free reprac? That is worthless, every Master has enough cash (or knows where to find it quickly) to get a reprac. The same is true about honing/hardening.

Really, as one of the main perks of Rank 8 was removed, perhaps some other real thing instead of it should be given. Both for practical purposes but mostly for the motivation and as a symbol. Otherwise the game will just have tons of inactive Masters and everybody will just go DF and remort. The LS is suffering and lack of motivation for the high ranks is a part of it.

Stomp
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:25 am

Re: Zone sense continued...

Post by Stomp » Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:58 pm

Why do we need r8 bonuses? This is an incentive for people to keep and hoard scalps. I would hope most R8s didn't do this to get to R8 and instead passed the scalps to more Jr players. Growth of the game is good. Giving people that reach R8 thru Pk isn't really needed. These are good players already as evidenced by their 3k qps.

Scalps aside you plan to get R8 through RP. I commend that because it is a ridiculous number of logs involved. Good luck. However, why do you feel you should get a pk related bonus? You have an RP related path to get that bonus already and are ignoring it. Either bond a warder or transfer to Red.

Don't use the players on as an excuse. Many other players deal with this and make due. I don't see any other aes sedai here begging for R8 zone sense. It's a change from the immortals, learn to adapt because the game constantly chnages.

Saif
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:53 am

Re: Zone sense continued...

Post by Saif » Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:00 pm

Think most of us found the change to zone sense to be "sense enemy" instead of shadowspawn to be somewhat annoying. I doubt you'll see zone sense offered to rank 8 Sedai, barring perhaps Red Ajah - not sure if they had it removed in this recent sweep- as you already have the option available to you. It is your call if you think the cons outweigh the pros. For me I'd probably bond my Sedai every time, just for the zone sense.

Rank 8 still has a lot of benefits and perks and seems well worth working towards if you're committing to playing one character. Think we need to get off the mentality that whenever something is taken away it is the end of the world.

Callesa
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:45 pm

Re: Zone sense continued...

Post by Callesa » Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:12 pm

Saif wrote:
Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:00 pm
Think most of us found the change to zone sense to be "sense enemy" instead of shadowspawn to be somewhat annoying. I doubt you'll see zone sense offered to rank 8 Sedai, barring perhaps Red Ajah - not sure if they had it removed in this recent sweep- as you already have the option available to you. It is your call if you think the cons outweigh the pros. For me I'd probably bond my Sedai every time, just for the zone sense.

Rank 8 still has a lot of benefits and perks and seems well worth working towards if you're committing to playing one character. Think we need to get off the mentality that whenever something is taken away it is the end of the world.
I don't have the option available, there are extremely few Gaidin in my time zones, and there are in general significantly more AS than Gaidin, so who would pick me, as I am more interested in everything else than PK? Plus the cons really outweight the pros, the zone sense is the only pro right now, isn't it? You just become dependent in someone in a different timezone and lose 20 sps, that's what the bond is.

I am not saying it is the end of the world, I just hate to see how LS is treated just a stepping stone towards DS. It will take me time to get to Rank 8 and am doing it for a different reason, but I am already hearing people giving up on it=not planning to stick to their characters after mastering.

We need more incentives for people to stay commited to a character. Because we have clans suffering from their masters having moved on, we have overall few "advanced chars" on the who lists for a big part of the day.

Locked