DS rogue pracs

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Zeeb
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:42 pm

Re: DS rogue pracs

Post by Zeeb » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:45 am

makes pair of sai look ok for a trolloc that doesn't have dirks...

I'd contend that pair of sai could get as much +10-14 parry and still be mostly crap but more usable. With crafting and tokens, playing an alt to get together the pod isn't an insurmountable task, and also playing 1 handed abs is an option...

Aureus
Posts: 968
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:13 pm

Re: DS rogue pracs

Post by Aureus » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:46 am

Trang wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:30 am
86 shield parry
87 notice
71 (lvl 5) surv
96 hide
93 sneak
93 backstab
93 weapon
87 dodge

best i can figure if you want full stab on ds rogue prerolled
Drop survival to 4 and I think that gets you to 99 hide, for the max prac fans.

Crusunte
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:49 pm

Re: DS rogue pracs

Post by Crusunte » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:04 pm

I ran a 1h stab/dodge/projectile set up for awhile and the stab practices themselves don't look too dissimilar, with most of the projectile specific pracs (palm/projectiles) just going to survival instead. Still stabbed stuff without a problem most of the time, only kind of noticeable downside was zero search.

Will probably be running this on 18 9 9 19 18 rogue:

85 sparry (or 79-80, trade off with dodge -- upped to 85 in this prac iteration because the ko'bal badge isn't giving me a free 5 PB anymore)
99 hide
89/90 sneak (based on resid)
97 dodge (or 99, trade off with sparry +2)
44 attack (or 53, trade off with sparry +1)
92 bstab
92 sblade
26 track
90 notice
60 survival (level 4)

All those basically hit the previous caps on stab land rate. If we want to go back to not making stab land rate scale above 85% sblades again to even stuff up with LS stabbers/rogues, totally fine with that too.

gok
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:41 am

Re: DS rogue pracs

Post by gok » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:08 pm

I am not against the change I think it just has forced DS rogues into a position where they are super prac starved. A few ideas on how to balance it out would be (I am not suggesting all of them but a version of one of them could help):

1) Increase DS rogue mentals by 4 on both int and wil (not sure on the practical application) to allow for better pracs
OR
2) Give all troll rogues an instant lvl 3 survival (like the old clan pracs)
OR
3) Remove the moves malus for notice from troll rogues
OR
4) Adjust stab to allow for lower levels of pracs to be more viable

For context below are some of the changes over the last year or so that impacted trolls rogues
1) Master stab damage significantly reduced (partially compensated for by rank damage and dagger damage)
2) Troll clan pracs removed
3) Dodge removed from top end trinkets and weapon weight increased
4) Notice costs moves
5) Backstab costs moves
6) Removal of human blood and reduce vial loads
7) Dirks parry reduced
8) Parry reduced from master postures

Perhaps an additional practical note is that if a DS rogue decides to try to roll a stab it costs them 9 moves (3 moves to enter the room (with notice), 1 mv to hide, 2 mvs to backstab and 3 mvs to flee out of the room.

Now a good argument can be made for all of these changes but the net effect has meant less damage, less mobility and less pracs. With the survival change we have the chance to net off some of the mobility reduction but only if we can afford the pracs.

I believe the changes have been made with the mindset to improve gameplay and address the incentive for people to play negative playstyles but I think it has nerfed troll rogues into the ground and some minor adjustments would help get things to a good place.

Shinobi
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 3:05 pm

Re: DS rogue pracs

Post by Shinobi » Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:05 pm

Lol.

Vampa
Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:45 am

Re: DS rogue pracs

Post by Vampa » Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:20 pm

gok wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:08 pm
I am not against the change I think it just has forced DS rogues into a position where they are super prac starved.
They're supposed to be.

Jestin
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:15 am

Re: DS rogue pracs

Post by Jestin » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:13 pm

We didn't even use to have rogues on DS. Htf is a stinky 7 foot animal sneaking around and stabbing things in the back anyway? When did that ever happen in the books?

Just switch to another alt. I know that would make 95% of the players fighting you much happier and increase overall fun.

Let's leave the whole trolloc rogue thing in the past and forget it ever happened.

Halcyon
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:54 pm

Re: DS rogue pracs

Post by Halcyon » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:35 pm

Stats: 18 11 8 19 18

Warrior:
85 sparry

Ranger:
4 survival
85 notice

Thief:
99 dodge
99 hide
95 stab
92 sblades
89 sneak
89 attack


A ton of room to play around with pracs.

ladar
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:51 am

Re: DS rogue pracs

Post by ladar » Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:02 pm

Zeeb wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:45 am
makes pair of sai look ok for a trolloc that doesn't have dirks...

I'd contend that pair of sai could get as much +10-14 parry and still be mostly crap but more usable. With crafting and tokens, playing an alt to get together the pod isn't an insurmountable task, and also playing 1 handed abs is an option...
Maybe there needs to be a new medium or basic tier 2 handed sblade. And maybe +1 more javelin? Would help flesh out that side of the ecosystem for people to opt into the 2 handed weapon tradeoff playstyle without... requiring dirks or reprac.

Something like
Basic 2h Sblade A) a good hit die, shitty OB, decently good-great PB - designed as cheap competitive stab option but w/bad sustained melee damage
&
Basic 2h Sblade b) medicore hit die, good-great ob, mediocre pb - designed as a cheap, junk stabber, but w/ acceptable sustained melee damage.

Those would fill some gaps in itemization. Whereas sais would become the jack of all trades, and dirks combining both effects for best in class.

Halcyon
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:54 pm

Re: DS rogue pracs

Post by Halcyon » Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:49 pm

2h sblades shouldn’t be exist

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