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DS rogue pracs
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:16 pm
by gok
Hi all,
Some good intentioned changes went in today to improve gameplay however one of the changes (2mvs for backstab) has left me wondering about the viability of troll rogue pracs for 1 handed daggers. My assumption is that I would need to get lvl 4 survival at least to offset the backstab cost and the removal of human blood this allows me to use backstab 1-2 times a tick and have the same moves outcome. However I simply just don't have the pracs to afford this unless I use 2handed daggers. For context my stats are 17 11 11 19 19. Has anyone else been able to come up with a viable prac setup for 1 handed daggers?
Cheers
Gok
Re: DS rogue pracs
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:15 pm
by Jaghut
I can't imagine 1handed rogues will be able to practice much of any survival. As it is, my unclanned rogue never has enough for lvl 1 survival as a 1h sblade user.
DS rogues are plenty powerful though, so I'm good with that.
Re: DS rogue pracs
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:30 pm
by Aureus
I shared this in DMs, but here is a reasonable base 1h short blade setup for trolloc rogues with prerolled stats. You can adjust from here up and down (e.g., trading off some Survival for better stab pracs or attack).
https://imgur.com/7E29p3J
Re: DS rogue pracs
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:44 pm
by Asandra
Hide at 90?
Re: DS rogue pracs
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:46 pm
by toshiro
I don't play my DS rogues much (will bump him to prerolled when I can), but as an SS rogue those pracs would be unacceptable. 90% stab and 90 % and you already lose 19% land rate vs 99% of both (so 36% chance land rate). Subtract another 18 % if the target has notice on (18% land rate) . factor in the failed hides with 90% hide (dropping you to 0% each time), stab land rate would average to something less than 18% if you complete your timer.
In addition to lost mvs to new survival changes, lost mvs due to running stab, and less chances to run timers... i'm not sure I'd consider playing my ds rogue again without using a two-hander
Re: DS rogue pracs
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:57 pm
by Aloisa
toshiro wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:46 pm
I don't play my DS rogues much (will bump him to prerolled when I can), but as an SS rogue those pracs would be unacceptable. 90% stab and 90 % and you already lose 19% land rate vs 99% of both (so 36% chance land rate). Subtract another 18 % if the target has notice on (18% land rate) . factor in the failed hides with 90% hide (dropping you to 0% each time), stab land rate would average to something less than 18% if you complete your timer.
In addition to lost mvs to new survival changes, lost mvs due to running stab, and less chances to run timers... i'm not sure I'd consider playing my ds rogue again without using a two-hander
You don't lose mvs to new survival. You just gain more mvs regeneration.
Re: DS rogue pracs
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:12 pm
by Eol
Some things in life aren't meant to be compensated for - the stab spamming was broken and should never have existed.
The real problem for darkside is that we don't classically stat for int/wil and placing a bigger focus on hunter practices is going to make life tough. Within the last few years I statted like a 4 wil troll with 19 18 18 (and terrible hps). I levelled him to 51 and then quickly I gave him up and turned him into a storage char.
I find the changes today fascinating. I hope we'll continue to pursue the classic inequalities that have persisted like how troll mentals are calculated and how they factor into practices.
Re: DS rogue pracs
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:51 am
by Angri
The necessity for improved base trolloc mentals has become more relevant overnight, thanks to the reworking of survival. The noticeable difference between achievable pracs is quite shocking - an alt with 6 3 mentals vs the prerolled of 7 7 was a difference of 28 pracs. Although rogues using 1h sblades have always been tight on pracs, now it's just impractical to factor either in survival or stab.
As for @Aureus suggestion, it's not April yet! No one in their right mind who wants to stab is going to get 90% hide and backstab, as nicely explained by @Toshiro.
Re: DS rogue pracs
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:21 am
by Foil
Aureus wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:30 pm
I shared this in DMs, but here is a reasonable base 1h short blade setup for trolloc rogues with prerolled stats. You can adjust from here up and down (e.g., trading off some Survival for better stab pracs or attack).
https://imgur.com/7E29p3J
I bet LS would love it for rogues to start praccing like its 1998 again.
Re: DS rogue pracs
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:30 am
by Trang
86 shield parry
87 notice
71 (lvl 5) surv
96 hide
93 sneak
93 backstab
93 weapon
87 dodge
best i can figure if you want full stab on ds rogue prerolled