Zone sense

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Foil
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:10 pm

Re: Zone sense

Post by Foil » Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:28 pm

Yoshimo wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:03 pm
can we also remove/change;

troll stabbers
portal stone discs
who can use portal stones
Ways
who can open Ways
making Ways actually dangerous to go through
plug noses of trolls so they dont have their budget version of zone sense at least the further from Blight they are...you know...clear air messes with their snoots or something


Damn all those R8s with their overpowered zone sense...ruining the game. I mean really....
troll stabbers - Sure, what would you like changed about them?

portal stone discs - Remove them

who can use portal stones - Make them channie only again.

Ways - How would you liked them changed?

who can open Ways - Who do you suggest and how?

making Ways actually dangerous to go through - People DT in them all the time.

plug noses of trolls so they dont have their budget version of zone sense at least the further from Blight they are...you know...clear air messes with their snoots or something - why would a troll not be able to smells a horse?

I'm open to all change, make a case for it. Plenty of people have made cases for removing rank 8 zone sense and I think the majority at this point agree that it's kind of run it's course. There are plenty of other great reasons to be Rank 8 that are still there.

Eol
Posts: 704
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:34 pm

Re: Zone sense

Post by Eol » Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:33 pm

Remove it at the same time you fix smells/ravens. Perhaps they "are bookish" but they are horribly implemented.

So much of what happens in the game relies on crutches that are coded (a) unbeatable (b) instantaneous (c) without cost / timer / unlimited etc. Against that we have to balance the need to find and kill one another.

How can a wolfbrother distinguish PCs from the overall evil of the Blight?
How can a trolloc smells horses and humans in southern zones that would be crawling with them.

But we need to try and imagine a future that doesn't rely on just typing a command and immediately knowing if the other team is there. If the commands stay they need to

(a) Be once per tick
(b) Have a payment in moves
(c) Have a timer

Where do ravens and rats report to Dha'vol in the books.

Should we question our mentality about other things like smobs reporting to CoL and Seanchan?

Could we add more coded functionality to "scan" if we didn't rely on some of the above. I've said my peace on this elsewhere - I wish tracking was more universal.

Elysia
Posts: 7908
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: Zone sense

Post by Elysia » Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:03 pm

Eol wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:33 pm
Remove it at the same time you fix smells/ravens. Perhaps they "are bookish" but they are horribly implemented.
That's up to Flash, really. Any of us can want things, but ultimately, he picks and chooses what he looks at and merges.

Kitiara
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:53 pm

Re: Zone sense

Post by Kitiara » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:25 pm

Elysia wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:58 pm
Kitiara wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:20 am
RPly all Aes Sedai and bonded Gaidin should have it...
I'm not sure all Aes Sedai would, to be honest. In fact, re-reading the books, I'm not entirely sure bonded Aes Sedai get it, bookishly. Moiraine even comments in book one that if there's any spawn near, Lan will sense them at like 100 paces or something. The fact that she and Lan apparently woke up all of EF sensing Shadowspawn could arguably even be Lan sensing it and her sensing his alarm.
I just i finished rereading the books a month or so agi... but still delved into this deeper... there are a few things/ that seem contradictory about the sense coming from the Warder.

"It was Lan and Moiraine he was really interested in, though. They could sense a Myrddraal, or a Trolloc, or any Shadowspawn, before it came closer than a few hundred paces, but the Aes Sedai was staring distantly at the table in front of her, and the Warder was cutting a chunk of yellow cheese and watching her." - TDR

This one suggests Rand I believe thinks they can both sense.


"Lan came to stand in front of Perrin. “How did you know them, blacksmith?” he asked quietly. “Their taint of evil is not strong enough for Moiraine or me to sense. Gray Men have walked past a hundred guards without being noticed, and Warders among them.” - TDR"

This one Lan seems to imply that Moiraine can sense separate than him.

Moiraine also said she could only sense a Darkfriend if their soul was very tainted by the Dark One... and Fain was the only example of that to that point... regular Darkfriends were not tainted enough. But if she can sense the Dark Ones taint in Fain, she seemingly could sense it in shadowspawn. - edited to add this

Another example is the gray men in the Tower and in Illian. It was mentioned that the gray men must have been warded for them not to be caught (in the tower for Nynaeve /egwene and illian by Moraine&lan)


Rand is another example as he worked more with the Power he was able to sense even more acutely than Moriane or Lan... He was much more powerful in the One Power so that is likely why he could sense better. (there is also a theory that Men can sense better because the taint)


A Warder is just a man without the bond. It stands to reason that any ability received is from the One Power, and the One Power comes from the Aes Sedai. So while it does seem a bit murky in the books as to all channelers seasoned with the power vs. warders and the bond messaging, but I would give the weight of evidence stronger on all channelers.

Elysia
Posts: 7908
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: Zone sense

Post by Elysia » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:29 pm

Yeah, but then there is Moiraine thinking it's Lan behind her, when it's the Draghkar. :?

Westlyn
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:09 pm

Re: Zone sense

Post by Westlyn » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:34 pm

Hit the nail on the head here Kitiara.

Kitiara
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:53 pm

Re: Zone sense

Post by Kitiara » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:37 pm

Elysia wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:29 pm
Yeah, but then there is Moiraine thinking it's Lan behind her, when it's the Draghkar. :?
That seems more a property of the draghkar than who senses what... I agree its murky, but it seems heavily in favor of Aes Sedai sense the shadow not just their warder.

Aloisa
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Zone sense

Post by Aloisa » Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:07 pm

Don't the books imply that all channelers of sufficient skill and experience can sense shadowspawn?

Rhys
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:10 pm

Re: Zone sense

Post by Rhys » Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:11 pm

Kitiara wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:37 pm
Elysia wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:29 pm
Yeah, but then there is Moiraine thinking it's Lan behind her, when it's the Draghkar. :?
That seems more a property of the draghkar than who senses what... I agree its murky, but it seems heavily in favor of Aes Sedai sense the shadow not just their warder.
If you're referring to the scene in The Great Hunt, I just reread this, and Moraine says she couldn't sense the Draghkar because it was 'warded' -- and then her and those other two Sedai shiver about the implications of a channeler having warded the Draghkar

Kryyg
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:52 am

Re: Zone sense

Post by Kryyg » Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:20 pm

Also let’s remove all recent zone changes to north PK and return it back to how it was the last 20 years. Zones were not the issue the game had. I have no interest in playing and learning changes to old zones. Change for the sake of change is idiotic and misplaced in my option. It is what it is. Time for new players I guess.

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