Clan Transfers

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Vannor
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:05 pm

Clan Transfers

Post by Vannor » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:09 pm

I understand it's none of my business, but a recent situation regarding a player that followed policy to enable a clan transfer to another clan was recently transferred back due to it not being 'staff approved' has left me feeling uncomfortable.

I haven't personally spoke to the player in question.

Obviously the transfer couldn't occur without some sort of immortal involvement, and seems to me the player followed all requirements that were current at that time to enable the transfer.

The receiving clan were happy to have the player since it requires a 100% vote. Now the player is back in the clan they 'left' which I think creates an awkward atmosphere for both the player and the original clan.

Clearly the player has done nothing wrong here and is being pseudo-punished for a mistake being made by an immortal. I don't blame the immortal conducting the transfer either.

I think it'd be more reasonable to restore the player to the clan they transferred to, and review whatever policy surrounds the clan transfers on the immortal end so that this situation doesn't happen again and a player isint unfairly disadvantaged.

Tldr; restore the clan transfer and just make sure that kind of mistake doesn't happen again

myzec
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:40 pm

Re: Clan Transfers

Post by myzec » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:15 pm

Thank you for posting Vannor, I feel the same way. I personally was of the view that there were no specific restrictions in place.
I agree with Vannor's comments allow the player to remain in the clan they transferred to and ensure everyone is aware of the restrictions going forward.

Foil
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:10 pm

Re: Clan Transfers

Post by Foil » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:00 pm

This particular incident isn't the first issue with clan transfers and I do not know all the ins and outs of this situation.

I only have one real question. Was the addition of clan transfers not applying to KMG added before or after this most recent individual is having their clan transfer reverted. If it was before, there is no issue it was clear cut. If it was after the transfer was done, that's a bit of a problem.

Clear procedures and rules that apply to all need to be in place so situations like this don't end up with a disillusioned player feeling that the staff has done them wrong.

Tesyl
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 am

Re: Clan Transfers

Post by Tesyl » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:05 pm

The recent change about KMG in the rule was made 5 weeks after this player transferred.

Vampa
Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:45 am

Re: Clan Transfers

Post by Vampa » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:18 pm

The KMG exclusion was added after reverting the transfer.

The character had previously sought a transfer and was denied. It's not the first time they've attempted to go to non-adminstrative immortals to pursue a goal they'd been warned against by admins. The transfer happened without admin approval, and it was assumed I'd okayed the transfer, so when I enquired who had and learned no one had I reverted it.

I then updated the clan transfer rules because KMG aren't eligible for transfers and it was short sighted not to have excluded them from the beginning.

The matter went without notice for five weeks because I have been almost entirely absent for nearly double that time period.

Viva
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:16 pm

Re: Clan Transfers

Post by Viva » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:24 pm

Vampa wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:18 pm
The KMG exclusion was added after reverting the transfer.

The character had previously sought a transfer and was denied. It's not the first time they've attempted to go to non-adminstrative immortals to pursue a goal they'd been warned against by admins. The transfer happened without admin approval, and it was assumed I'd okayed the transfer, so when I enquired who had and learned no one had I reverted it.

I then updated the clan transfer rules because KMG aren't eligible for transfers and it was short sighted not to have excluded them from the beginning.

The matter went without notice for five weeks because I have been almost entirely absent for nearly double that time period.
This is a lie. Viva NEVER attempted to transfer before this and was never denied.

To the best of my recollection I have NEVER been told no by a staff member and attempted to get another lower level immortal to do what I have prevoiusly been told no. This is also a lie.

edit: Ahh, I think I know what you are eluding to. When Viva first gained rank I asked if she could get a clanned weave instead of a R8 weapon/armor. Elysia said no. Then in a conversation with Siro after my transfer I made a random comment about it. THEY then went to staff to ask if it was possible. I did not ask them to. Nor did I remember at the time that Elysia said no... there was no nefarious intentions. I asked for something twice... if that is such a huge transgression your gonna have to ban a majority of the player base.

This is clearly an attempt at character assassination.
Last edited by Viva on Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Tesyl
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 am

Re: Clan Transfers

Post by Tesyl » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:33 pm

Vampa wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:18 pm
The KMG exclusion was added after reverting the transfer.

The character had previously sought a transfer and was denied. It's not the first time they've attempted to go to non-adminstrative immortals to pursue a goal they'd been warned against by admins. The transfer happened without admin approval, and it was assumed I'd okayed the transfer, so when I enquired who had and learned no one had I reverted it.

I then updated the clan transfer rules because KMG aren't eligible for transfers and it was short sighted not to have excluded them from the beginning.

The matter went without notice for five weeks because I have been almost entirely absent for nearly double that time period.
Trying to blame Viva for some underhanded measures? Viva went to Siro, and would of course assume Siro took the proper avenue from there. One would assume you go to you clan admin, they go to the staff or whatever they need to do, and then report back to the player. Most players don't know who is imm vs staff vs admin. As I wrote in a different thread, this transfer happened 5 WEEKS ago. I know, with complete certainty, that staff knew about it along before yesterday. One was involved in a discussion about Viva the dragonsworns tower warrant almost a week ago, and some complaints about this move have been all over discord for weeks. The staff knew full well about this move.

This is simply a rule change occurring and being retroactively applied to appease some complaining players the imms seem to want to appease. I have no problem with the rule change. However, Viva should be grandfathered in. You don't hurt a player because the imms and staff failed to properly communicate. It's demoralizing to the player base and unfair to the player involved.

Tesyl
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 am

Re: Clan Transfers

Post by Tesyl » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:40 pm

I posted this on the other thread:

Vampa, of course you should fix it moving forward. You made a rule change, and fixed it for the future. Allowing Viva to stay acknowledges, that even though the length of time isn't your fault, it's not Viva's fault either. Allowing her to stay is a show of good faith from a staff and imm group that dropped the ball.

As a teacher, I make mistakes with classroom policies or implementation. When I do, I change the policy, and move forward. I don't retroactively adversely affect my students because of MY screw up. If I tell my kids they can use notes for a test, and then learn it made it too easy and didn't accurately represent their learned knowledge, I make sure they can't use their notes from now on. I don't go back and throw out their old test.

Also, if I have a substitute teacher that makes a mistake, I don't retroactively punish my kids for that either.

Vannor
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:05 pm

Re: Clan Transfers

Post by Vannor » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:13 pm

Yeah this is not 'Vampa bashing opportunity' he's only guided by what he's being told.

Clearly the sequence of events are not ideal, and I'm appealing for an opportunity here to correct what I see as a player being unfairly disadvantaged as a result of an immortal mistake on the players behalf. I'm not privy to all the details, and nor should I be privy to immortal discussions.

If it wasn't the players fault, and it appears nothing underhanded went on here, just put them back Dsworn. The Dsworn 'bonuses' are far from extravagant and come with plenty of IC maluses. It looks like Viva was actively participating in, and enjoying, the RP of the clan.

Tesyl
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 am

Re: Clan Transfers

Post by Tesyl » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:17 pm

^^^^^^^^^

Locked