Wheel of Time season 1 episode 8 "The Eye of the World" season finale

[isabel]

Well the other funny thing with that is that they were obviously not expecting or aware that they would have two incredibly powerful channelers with them. So their original plan was three of them led by someone who could channel a trickle only, presumably all three could only channel a trickle or similar?

Other thing is they're entirely out in the open. In the Logain army fight scene it seemed like the warders did play a role in protection of some sort. But if channelers can just create shockwaves like that then do they even need warders!

Also egwene should probably have been too drained to channel anything after that. But on the other hand - i vaguely remember in the books something like if the circle leader overchannels it kills everyone - so maybe this is their way of showing that egwene is even more powerful than nynaeve, that she could resist even that.

Plot and technical quibbles aside, my biggest problem with the show was that there was zero character immersion and the fact that at this point Rand and Moiraine especially (I would add Egwene more or less) have started to become sympathetic and slightly real characters is a big deal. I'm hoping Lan epic scenes are being held back for maximum effect when they kick in.

[Jestin]

Given that the response from non book readers is almost universally very positive, I would say that it's safe to say that the problem is us, not the show.

I think our minds kept telling us that we should lower expectations while our hearts said "firetruck you I love this series and expect the moon."

[Kryyg]

I don’t know About the moon but I would settle for like atmospheric. I think they have achieved a small hill.

[wade]

Given that the response from non book readers is almost universally very positive, I would say that it's safe to say that the problem is us, not the show.

I think our minds kept telling us that we should lower expectations while our hearts said "firetruck you I love this series and expect the moon."

This.
I don't mind taking a creative license with some of the timeline but the main problem for people who have lived waiting for the next book multiple times and started reading this series back when like fires of heaven came out and waited patiently for
The ending that the show should have some semblance of the actual timeline of events in the books. Not completely ignoring the rules of the world they are living in when they shift the events. Should say loosely based on the wheel of time. It's a completely unique story now. The characters are not even the same. And on top of that it was such a weak season ending my wife who has liked the show and hasn't read the books actually fell asleep. That says to me that the "action" was so underwhelming in terms of a climax to the season.

[isabel]

It's still season one only. A lot of shows have atrocious first seasons and go onto hit their stride (TNG star trek).

I think Aes Sedai are hard to pitch correctly. Same with production issues. Same with trying to get really cool scenes for the male characters while depicting a matriarchal world.

I see a lot of people here pissed off with the woke stuff but maybe compare with how many shows and films have had zero good scenes for women - if there's a rebalancing at work it can take a little time to come about because this is still very new.

GoT is also another example of a show that got many things right but an entire season really wrong. I wouldn't write a show off based on one season, especially not the first one when they're doing something so new (and with who knows what production issues - mat recasting etc).

[Kryyg]

It's still season one only. A lot of shows have atrocious first seasons and go onto hit their stride (TNG star trek).

I think Aes Sedai are hard to pitch correctly. Same with production issues. Same with trying to get really cool scenes for the male characters while depicting a matriarchal world.

I see a lot of people here pissed off with the woke stuff but maybe compare with how many shows and films have had zero good scenes for women - if there's a rebalancing at work it can take a little time to come about because this is still very new.

GoT is also another example of a show that got many things right but an entire season really wrong. I wouldn't write a show off based on one season, especially not the first one when they're doing something so new (and with who knows what production issues - mat recasting etc).

I agree in premise but the problem is the show isn’t doing something new. They aren’t creating a unique world, story, or casting. The book already created everything for them. For that reason I give them less room for error. It’s not like they had to actually be creative. I think your post speaks for some of the potential problems. You allude to them trying to be woke and they certainly are and it appears we both agree it’s at the cost of the shows experience. Though as others have said this is still a minor issue. If they want to do something new maybe choose a subject that’s new. Not take something written over the last 25 years then try to force modern day on to it. It’s like the production team was too lazy and incompetent to actually create a story so they chose WoT and now trying to force their image on it - at the cost of the true story. It is what it is. We live in an age where Keeping up with the Kardashians has a huge following. I suspect there may be a shared audience between the two shows - morons.

[Katherine]

Given that the response from non book readers is almost universally very positive, I would say that it's safe to say that the problem is us, not the show.

I think our minds kept telling us that we should lower expectations while our hearts said "firetruck you I love this series and expect the moon."

I do not think that logically follows. That is like saying that someone who has eaten stale, moldy bread their whole life is correct in thinking that the next bite of stale food without mold is the best they ever tasted, when in reality, its still awful and they have never tasted freshly baked bread before. The Wheel of Time is not a glorious masterpiece like the LOTR trilogy, but its still much better than what is on the screen. I am still re-reading the EoTW and the way he gradually moves the plot forward and develops the characters is still quite good. There's also a backdrop that comes out in the story that many do not realize is significant until the story has been read 2-3 times. I just re-read the part where Mat and Rand are going down river with Bayle Domon towards White Bridge and they see a steel tower in the distance. If you know, then you know.

I will say that I do appreciate the use of the Old Tongue in the opening sequence of the finale, but I dont appreciate the fact that closed caption had to be turned on in order to see the translation. That's not what CC subtitles are supposed to be used for. If the show was standards compliant, the subtitles should've been exactly the Old Tongue words they were speaking, so if you were deaf or partially deaf, too bad for you, because there was no way to know that they were speaking in Old Tongue short of lip reading and wondering what kind of gibberish was being said. So in a season finale, I had to stop the show, rewind, turn on captions and re-watch an entire scene. Thanks Amazon.

[Dinuc]

Though as others have said this is still a minor issue. If they want to do something new maybe choose a subject that’s new. Not take something written over the last 25 years then try to force modern day on to it. It’s like the production team was too lazy and incompetent to actually create a story so they chose WoT and now trying to force their image on it - at the cost of the true story. It is what it is. We live in an age where Keeping up with the Kardashians has a huge following. I suspect there may be a shared audience between the two shows - morons.

I think you are both being too generous. The show deliberately goes out of it's way to ensure that it gives all of the "good" male character's victories to the women, and it tries it's absolute hardest to avoid any strong "good" male characters. Of course the "bad" male characters have been excellent. The Children of Light (although the "light save me" was terrible). Ishmael and Paden Fain. All very good but they are villians so apparently that is okay to Rafe. And I am sure Egwene will end up being responsible for killing all 3...

I was holding off on this criticism until seeing the season finale. Because I understand if all the men are weak if Rand gets an awesome finale. But they even tried their hardest to take all the credit from Rand. Of course they had to figure out a way for Egwene to be there too, and Rand succeeds because he knows what Egwene wants, and he defeats the bad guy by using the 1000x OP item that Moiraine gives him. I thought the Rand actor did a good job. He has really grown on me over the season. But just looking analytically at what the show gave us. It is Rand talking about Egwene, and then just using the item Moiraine gives him. This compounded with the fact that it is a bit of a trick ending, just really diminishes Rand's growth as a character in the show. The only hint we get that Rand could be awesome, is Ishmael telling him he could teach him to create that world. But of course Rand pushes away from that power because of the love for Egwene. Not because he wants to save the world, not because he loathes the dark one and evil people. Nope, it is because he knows Egwene wants to go to the White tower. It diminishes what was supposed to be at stake in that moment.

So ruining the male "good" guys has had a huge cost to the story. And in most cases it could have easily been fixed. A good example is Nyneave telling Lan how to track Moiriane. It is pretty much the worst dialogue I have ever seen. I cannot comprehend how that got into the show. And it could have been avoided if the Lan in the show was remotely anything like the Lan in the book. Just something like the following would have been clearer and more straightfoward and would have gotten the desired result.

Nyneave: We need to help Rand.
Lan: Moiraine trusted me to look after you three, I am going to stay here with you guys and fight this army at our front door.
Nyneave: We don't need you we are strong independent women and noone cares if Perrin dies.
Lan: OK you are right, then I will use my tracking skills, and knowledge of the North, to fight my way to help Moiraine and Rand.

Obviously could clean it up a bit. But it was ridiculous the dialogue they used. It makes no sense logically, it makes no sense in the story. It just makes zero sense.

The Lews Therin scene also gave strong vibes that Lews was just an idiot male and wouldn't listen to a smart woman telling him that what he was doing was foolhardy and dangerous. And what happened? He didn't listen and he broke the world and sent that fantastical and futuristic world into the dark ages. This is a nitpick, but it just to show how pervasive this theme is.

And also Algemar. Every scene with him and his sister was pointlessly doubled up to show her just being better in every way.
1. He apologises about being wrong about asking for help.
2a. He says they are going to lose and acts resigned and defeated.
2b. She says they can still beat them and looks strong and heroic.
3a. He goes and dies after shooting 2 arrows.
3b. She goes and dies after defeating the entire dark ones army and saving the day.

Every "good" male character in the show can be seen in this way.

A. Perrin, is a loser, killed his wife and loves his best friend's girlfriend.
B. Matt, is a loser, thief and coward. (former is the shows fault, later maybe not their fault).
C. Thom, was a thief, and kinda cool but died.
D. Lan, doesn't even need to be said how weak he is. He couldn't even handle Rand and Matt together and let Matt attack Moiraine with a lethal dagger. This is two untrained sheep hearders. Also in the Ways he says he is taking watch, and it is Egwene who hears the danger first....
E. Logain, was cool, but was just a foil to show how powerful Nyneave is, and he ended up kneeling and submitting.
F. Warders, they make it sound like finding a warder is like finding a lost puppy. Twice we hear this story, once for the warder that died, and once for Lan. Both times no mention that they were skilled fighters, just a mention of how lost they were and the bond gave a purpose. And that purpose isn't fighting the dark one, nope it sounds like it is to be a dodgy bodyguard.

Now it doesn't matter to me if a show is 100% for guys, or 100% for women, or 50%:50% for both. But this is Robert Jordan's material and they easily could have had some great moments for everyone. Had strong male characters and female characters on both sides of the fight, as the books had. The show would have been better if they had the strong male and female characters that were in the books. I cannot understand what they were thinking when they have done all these male characters so dirty like this. But they have deliberately gone out of their way to strip all the male characters of their moments, and basically given them all to Egwene. And the story has suffered for it.

Now granted I have way overhyped most of these issues. Each individually is a nothing burger. But all of them together, and the sacrifices the show makes for these changes, is the real crux of the matter.

Now the positivity from non-book readers is a real thing. And I can understand that. If all this world building was brand new then it would be intriguing and could maybe save the show. But I would also claim that there is a lot of people that are not too picky with the quality of TV shows they watch. So doesn't surprise me what trash TV shows people enjoy. And unfortunately with this ending, I can be certain that even if I had no connection with the books, I would still be trashing this show for the cliche drama and weak finale with bad CGI.

Not supposed to be much of a rant either, just a long winded analysis of this aspect of the show and Rafe's obvious decision on not having a male heroic character.

[Tyrex]

I didn’t really like the last few episodes and I hope it gets better

[Katherine]

The Lews Therin scene also gave strong vibes that Lews was just an idiot male and wouldn't listen to a smart women telling him that what he was doing was foolhardy and dangerous. And what happened? He didn't listen and he broke the world and sent that fantastical and futuristic world into the dark ages. This is a nitpick, but it just to show how pervasive this theme is.

Yes! I was not a fan how they portrayed Lews Therin.

This is because the entire scene was completely lacking context and was poorly done. This scene would've taken place right near the end of the War of Power. Imagine thousands of extremely powerful channelers (the same ones who ended up Breaking the World) leading armies of trollocs and people against each other, destroying entire cities over a period of 10 or more years. The Light side was actually /losing/ the war. And they are just strolling around Lews Therin's villa like there's nothing going on, and war is just a distant memory. There is absolutely no hint of urgency, desperation, or danger at all in that scene. That is the context in which Lews Therin had to make his decision. It was a last ditch effort to seal the bore and Decume really had no other alternative ideas.

Instead the scene came across with her seeming wise and cautious and him seeming to be rash and stupid. In the books, she comes across as being indecisive and without alternatives "I dont know what to do, but this cant be the way!" sums up Decume in the book lore.